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SmartTrack (Proposed)

The more I look and analyze this project the more I think it's utterly insanity.
It is either insane or brilliant, depending on how it is executed, IMHO --

That line is beyond redundant and Metrolinx is perfectly capable of electrifying the line and adding more stations along the way.
But not as quickly, not on as much on Toronto voter terms (since they voted it in), and not with as good integration/co-operation with TTC. Metrolinx and TTC has been historically poor at co-operating, and SmartTrack is a big step in fixing that, and I think would be a genesis for future improved integration. Toronto's population essentially voted to provide almost $3B to accelerate a preferred GO RER plan, under the brand name of SmartTrack.

Why not just use that 8B$ to build the DRL instead and make preparations to extend Eglinton Crosstown further West?
An excellent argument, and they suggestively might decide to do so (top of page 4 of SmartTrack report keeps that door open, a very sensible report that even transit acitivist Steve Munro liked) though the same amount of taxpayer money would have been spent anyway on a GO RER resembling SmartTrack (without Eglinton spur, GO RER and SmartTrack would be Metrolinx spending of roughly equal amount, but constructed over a longer timespan, and Toronto may still be arguing over DRL for another decade or two -- it is still difficult for voters to agree on DRL).

So this isn't necessarily redundant taxpayer expense at the end of the day, just spent by different levels of government at different times instead, on a different schedule. The voters have decided, and still I think many elements of the SmartTrack is good, and will be an overall benefit GO RER + TTC in the next 10-15 years, thanks to improved TTC-Metrolinx integration financially encouraged by this project. For the first time, we can get true, genuine interchange stations between TTC and GO services. I can see Toronto essentially voted for all of that. So there can be a silver lining by this voter-triggered event of de-siloing/re-siloing taxpayer dollars between Metrolinx vs Toronto, creating long-term side effects such as better network integration, new TTC/Metrolinx culture, etc.

But I agree, it can also be a boondoggle, if they keep it political boilerplate and build the Eglinton spur for the sake of politics (without a long term plan for the spur, to make it worth the money -- e.g. reaching Square One within a generation, like 20 years -- then it becomes, in my opinion, justifies the spur, rather than a Sheppard stubway). If there is intelligence, about 10% of the SmartTrack plan will be modified for cost effectiveness (e.g. trade the portion of monies originally going to be spent on an expensive underground Eglinton spur, to be used instead for a cheaper Eglinton CrossTown LRT all the way to Mississauga downtown/Square One). Or that the Eglinton spur's future is put to a referendum later once scary cost estimates arrive, giving voters a chance essentially veto the Eglinton spur, one way or another.

And I live in Hamilton, whereupon I have no SmartTrack bias -- and where the risk of doing SmartTrack may theoretically delay Lakeshore West electricification. (or may not, if they package Lakeshore West electrification with the prioritized Lakeshore East electricification they need to their future facility) The Lakeshore East electricification is needed for GO RER too, so monies spent on that is very likely separate of the SmartTrack budget (using Metrolinx dollars only) even if SmartTrack trains will need to transit this, enroute to the maintenance facility.

Many elements are Metrolinx's own upcoming spending, hopefully unrelated to SmartTrack as it should not be "incremental" (Bullet item 4f; something they're determining: What expenses are SmartTrack "incrementals" and what is not) -- that question has not yet been answered, until the Winter 2016 report to City Council.
 
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Smarttrack Workplan

http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/...960.pdf?utm_source=&utm_medium=&utm_campaign=

The more I look and analyze this project the more I think it's utterly insanity. That line is beyond redundant and Metrolinx is perfectly capable of electrifying the line and adding more stations along the way.

Why not just use that 8B$ to build the DRL instead and make preparations to extend Eglinton Crosstown further West?

I believe there is a lot of confusion with the $8 billion.

Toronto is not paying $8 Billion and no one ever said they would. John Tory suggested 1/3 from Federal, 1/3 from Provincial and 1/3 from Toronto.

Heres the deal: the line isnt redundant because you are taking it too literally.

Smarttrack will only exist as a concept. It will be GO RER.

Smarttrack is just ensuring that Metrolinx and GO focus their RER on the corridors outlined, as well as build stations in the 416.

You say ' Metrolinx is perfectly capable of electrifying the line and adding more stations along the way" but the fact of the matter is that they werent going to. All the earlier proposals of GO Electrification did not have many stations at all downtown in the 416. They were looking at Electrifying the Lakeshore lines first and suggesting to go with bilevel trains being pulled by electric locomotives.


Smarttrack is about holding Metrolinx's hand and making sure they pay attention to the downtown sector.

And perhaps this means that the GO RER system is 33% more expensive than previously accounted for: because of the new stations downtown and focusing on the Stoufville corridor (its not as ready as Lakeshore East/West). So be it, thats where the 1/3 of $8 billion estimates are coming from.

I will be sick to my stomach when I hear in 8 years people say "Metrolinx built GO RER anyways with downtown stations, fare integration and EMU trains anyways, what a joke Smarttrack was" when in fact it WAS Smarttrack that caused this shift in focus to happen.

Oh well, if it happens this way I will be happy, dumb people will be dumb whether I like it or not.

Finally, the Eglinton Spur has to go in favor of the Crosstown extension, I agree with you there.
 
I believe there is a lot of confusion with the $8 billion.

Toronto is not paying $8 Billion and no one ever said they would. John Tory suggested 1/3 from Federal, 1/3 from Provincial and 1/3 from Toronto.
John Tory suggested that the City of Toronto contribute $2.7 billion? DO you have a reference for this?

The entire thing is beyond absurd. Everything except Eglinton West is part of the existing GO RER plans (which also include 5 other lines), and should stay in the hands of the province.

When Premier McGuinty postponed the Eglinton Line segment between Mount Dennis and Renforth, they costed it at $467 million, and invited Toronto to pay it if they wanted it build soon.

How did $467 million turn into $2.7 billion?

5 in 10 Phase 2.png

I will be sick to my stomach when I hear in 8 years people say "Metrolinx built GO RER anyways with downtown stations, fare integration and EMU trains anyways, what a joke Smarttrack was" when in fact it WAS Smarttrack that caused this shift in focus to happen.
How do you come to that conclusion. Metrolinx has made detailed promises about fare integration for the last couple of years, including a detailed timetable. They've also been talking about EMU trains in the electrification that was already promised before anyone ever had the misfortune of hearing about John Tory's DumbTrack idea. And how many GO or Metrolinx reports in the last 10 years have shown more downtown stations?

I'll be sick to my stomach if the Kitchener-line RER service turns left at Mount Dennis and stops at Renforth, rather than serving northern Etobicoke and Brampton. And how are we forgetting the RER on the other 5 lines ... when did this become all Stoufville and Mount Dennis all the time?
 

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Coun. Gord Perks said he will not support the funding or the studies for the Eglinton option. The city should instead stick with the approved Eglinton Crosstown line.

“It’s bad transit planning and I won’t support it,” he told reporters during a break from the meeting.

Coun. Janet Davis echoed Perks’ sentiment. She said the rest of the SmartTrack — building on existing corridors — “makes a lot of sense,” but she also has doubts about the Eglinton option.

Davis also said that the SmartTrack discussion is deferring the attention paid to other studies, such as the proposed Downtown Relief Line, Finch West LRT and other light rail transit components.

“They cannot lose attention in this process. It is a concern,” she said.


I doubt there will be enough momentum in council to kill the Eglinton thing right away, but it will be an interesting debate.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...ack-plan-before-executive-committee-1.2927900
 
I will be sick to my stomach when I hear in 8 years people say "Metrolinx built GO RER anyways with downtown stations, fare integration and EMU trains anyways, what a joke Smarttrack was" when in fact it WAS Smarttrack that caused this shift in focus to happen.

I think you got this backwards. Even people on JTs campaign team admit that GO RER inspired SmartTrack.
 
Finally, the Eglinton Spur has to go in favor of the Crosstown extension, I agree with you there.
And the question to extend Crosstown to Square One, or to extend it to the airport. That's another debate, too.

For the same price of an insanely, hugely expensive underground Eglinton RER corridor (potentially consuming $2B-4B+ of SmartTrack alone), I think you could extend Crosstown all the way to Mississauga downtown? The Mississauga region has to be satisfied with a fair trade (possibly more attractive for the same dollars) for canning the Eglinton spur. The airport is a good alternate destination, but will Mississauga voters (who voted in Tory) be happy with that option? A scenario needs to be presented that gives Mississauga interesting quid pro quo options.

SmartTrack(GO RER) is easily approximately only half to two-thirds cost, when chopping the Eglinton spur. We would just need a Stoufville Corridor Grade Separation/Double-Tracking Megaproject, and an Electricification Megaproject, plus all the EMU's we need. That's easily several billion into itself.
 
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http://www.insidetoronto.com/news-s...roposes-smarttrack-trains-to-run-on-go-lines/

"Funding for the plan would come from all three levels of government, each responsible for a third of the money, "

Please read any of the reports of RER pre-Smarrtrack (or even post Smarttrack) NONE, mention the levels of stations downtown that Smarttrack is proposing. If you add more stations to the plan, then there will be additional costs. I believe that Toronto should pay for stations that are added to RER in Toronto.

EMU is mentioned as one of many options, but electric bilevel locomotives was seen as the best option in one report.

Fare Integration is not the same thing as riding the system with a TTC pass without any additional fees. Metrolinx's discussions about fare integration with the TTC were similar in nature to what already exists with VIVA, BRT etc: a discount on the regular GO fare.

I can almost guarantee that the Eglinton spur will not happen due to engineering constraints and massive cost overruns.


John Tory suggested that the City of Toronto contribute $2.7 billion? DO you have a reference for this?

The entire thing is beyond absurd. Everything except Eglinton West is part of the existing GO RER plans (which also include 5 other lines), and should stay in the hands of the province.

When Premier McGuinty postponed the Eglinton Line segment between Mount Dennis and Renforth, they costed it at $467 million, and invited Toronto to pay it if they wanted it build soon.

How did $467 million turn into $2.7 billion?

View attachment 40929

How do you come to that conclusion. Metrolinx has made detailed promises about fare integration for the last couple of years, including a detailed timetable. They've also been talking about EMU trains in the electrification that was already promised before anyone ever had the misfortune of hearing about John Tory's DumbTrack idea. And how many GO or Metrolinx reports in the last 10 years have shown more downtown stations?

I'll be sick to my stomach if the Kitchener-line RER service turns left at Mount Dennis and stops at Renforth, rather than serving northern Etobicoke and Brampton. And how are we forgetting the RER on the other 5 lines ... when did this become all Stoufville and Mount Dennis all the time?
 
"Funding for the plan would come from all three levels of government, each responsible for a third of the money, "
Good grief ... and using TIF. Well at least the residents of Scarborough will be paying through the nose for this ...

Please read any of the reports of RER pre-Smarrtrack (or even post Smarttrack) NONE, mention the levels of stations downtown that Smarttrack is proposing. If you add more stations to the plan, then there will be additional costs. I believe that Toronto should pay for stations that are added to RER in Toronto.
The RER reports aren't to that level of detail yet. There's plenty of other GO/Metrolinx reports that discuss additional station.

EMU is mentioned as one of many options, but electric bilevel locomotives was seen as the best option in one report.
It was. The more recent ones seem to have changed direction though.
 
The RER reports aren't to that level of detail yet. There's plenty of other GO/Metrolinx reports that discuss additional station.

Downtown infill stations, when they appeared, were things like idiotic "Union Station II" terminal at the Bathurst Yards. (If ST does one thing, hopefully it kills that off as an idea)

I can't remember a single GO/Metrolinx report that considered the idea of a frequent stop RER line through downtown.

In general, I think it's fair to say that prior to the recent Provincial and Municipal elections, GO-RER didn't really extend beyond electric locos and introduction of off-peak services to non-Lakeshore lines. I certainly don't remember any serious discussion of EMUs, TTC fares or infill stations prior to then.
 

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