doady
Senior Member
So? Sheppard is still busier than Queen.
|
|
|
Sheppard Stubway
- Thread starter Dan416
- Start date
So? Sheppard is still busier than Queen.
The fact that they're split by subway lines doesn't change the numbers though. The majority of what Sheppard does in the AM peak period is dump riders onto the Yonge line, where as the Queen line has the main purpose of bringing commuters directly downtown (it only intersects subways downtown).
I'm just going by what the passengers per day numbers say. All the lines I mentioned are within a few hundred riders per day of the Sheppard subway (and the counts on streetcars are less exact due to the fact that they don't have turnstiles like subways do).
I'm just going by what the passengers per day numbers say. All the lines I mentioned are within a few hundred riders per day of the Sheppard subway (and the counts on streetcars are less exact due to the fact that they don't have turnstiles like subways do).
kettal
Banned
King Street is only marginally longer than Sheppard subway
If you include the 502 Downtowner into the count, no it isn't:
Queen: 501 (41,200 PPD) + 502 (6,100 PPD) = 47,300
Sheppard: 41,290
If you're looking at PPD per KM, then yes Sheppard is busier.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
So what? Sheppard is still busier. The fact that they're split *does* change the numbers...it's peak ridership (combined with route length) that determines what kind of and how many vehicles are needed.
There's no turnstiles between bus bays and subway platforms, or between the Sheppard and Yonge platforms, or where people walk in flashing a metropass.
Total riders per day is a meaningless number the way you've used it. The two Finch buses could be combined into one ridiculously long route with far higher total ridership than any other route, but Sheppard would still be busier.
Isn't this what happend along Sheppard??? You can't honestly tell me that the Sheppard East bus was carrying 41,000 per day before the subway was put in.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
The 504 King route is 12.8 km long. So if by marginal you mean more than double, you're right.
Dan416
Senior Member
I think if any person from another city took the Sheppard Subway to Don Mills, only to have to transfer to an LRT to continue on Sheppard, only to have to transfer again to get to Scarborough Town Centre, that they would have a very low opinion of how our city plans. It makes no sense to have to transfer even once on such a route, between two city centres which are relatively close together and quite logical to link up with rapid transit.
scarberiankhatru
Senior Member
No, it did not happen - Sheppard is not yet long enough to steal more than a handful from other routes. A tunnel under Queen or Dundas would each decimate ridership (and service) on two parallel routes.
Sheppard was moving 36-37K riders per day before the subway opened. Only a few riders have shifted from routes like Bayview or Don Mills, as well as perhaps ...perhaps 10% of the current ridership base is shiftees? You've failed to note that Sheppard (85+190) *still* moves 36,500 riders per day and that's after the busiest stretch of Sheppard was replaced by a subway. Ridership growth has been due mostly to population growth and the attractiveness of the subway compared to the previous bus service (which wasn't good).
kettal
Banned
My comment is still factually true.
kettal
Banned
Dan416
Senior Member
Absolutely correct. That's why I voted in this poll the way I did
Except an LRT would be a downgrade. Who would spend that much money to build a subway, and then downgrade it to lower-capacity? It makes no rational sense. At all. In fact your choice is what I'm MOST against.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Well then we should just replace all the LRT lines with subway, because subway's only marginally more expensive.
kettal
Banned
Hey, you're the one who said eliminating transfers was of such high importance.
Downgrade sure is a scary word, but it usually implies there is a loss of capacity or speed, which there wouldn't be should the Sheppard tunnel be converted.
The St. Kilda train in Melbourne was "downgraded" to LRT over the course of a few months. Today it is LRT which runs in a combination of private ROW and on-street, and has a higher capacity than it did as a heavy rail train. It is much more accessible to locals and drops riders off in front of major attractions and destinations. Not what I'd call a downgrade.
unimaginative2
Senior Member
Even if they converted the subway into a light rail, you'd still have an unnecessary transfer between Scarborough Centre and North York Centre, because somebody inexplicably (perhaps because otherwise it would leave a ward of the city unserved by a streetcar) decided that the Sheppard LRT should run east to serve the squirrels in Rouge Park rather than the tens of thousands of people at Scarborough's designated regional growth centre.