News   Jun 25, 2024
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Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

I broadly agree with this ^^ routing but would argue for Line 4 to extend to either Woodbine, and either terminate there or continue into LBPIA. The GTAA identified that more folks travel to the airport and its commercial zone from north of the 401 (and east of the airport) than from downtown Toronto, and yet there's no practical transit service.
 
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From tonight.

Dennis
 
ML is abundantly telegraphing that this line will be above ground to a significant degree. They use the phrase 'mixed grade'.
Mixed grade does not signal 'significant degree' anything. It signals that they will permit ideas that bring it at or above grade. How much is above grade will depend on the routing and options.
 
Mixed grade does not signal 'significant degree' anything. It signals that they will permit ideas that bring it at or above grade. How much is above grade will depend on the routing and options.
Ok, we shall see. My socks won't be knocked off if the plan features significant above grade alignment.
 
If you're going past STC further east into Scarborough, you gotta terminate at STC, transfer to line 2 to MCcowan n Sheppard and then continue east along Sheppard.
That is extremely lame
Or they could just get off at the station at the station at Kennedy and then take the bus the rest of the way. It would be silly to take the bus to McCowan and Sheppard, transfer onto the subway, take it one stop south to STC and then transfer to Line 4 to continue east, when instead you can just stay on the bus and take to straight to Line 4 at Kenndy and Sheppard. If Line 4 terminates at STC ridership patterns will adapt to this reality. Now I'll admit the EELRT in its current incarnation would throw a big wrench into this since transferring from the EELRT at Sheppard and than either taking the subway one stop south, or hopping on a bus for an addition 2km ride to the subway at Agincourt is just as bad, but if Line 4 terminates at STC than the onus will be on the City to adapt its EELRT plan around this somehow. At the same time when we were all fighting over the Line 2 extension, the linear transfer at Kennedy to Line 3 was often brought up, but I fail to see how creating a linear transfer along Sheppard between Line 4 and the EELRT is any better. Maybe you bridge this potential gap by extending the EELRT 2 or so extra kilometres to Agincourt and create a hub there between Line 4, the EELRT, and the GO Train, but that's just shifting the linear transfer down the road. It would also make no sense to route the EELRT down McCowan to STC since that would just duplicate the subway. Simply put transit expansion into Scarborough was always going to be a mess, the EELRT complicates matters, and not everyone will be happy with the outcome we get.
 
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It shouldn't at all come as a surprise that people would prefer the line terminate at STC. The area around STC has been the central hub for Scarborough since it was built in the 70's and in this part of the city the collective belief is STC is the centre of Scarborough, it is our downtown. While there are plans for development at Sheppard and McCowan, that won't change the reality on the ground of how STC is viewed as the main hub of Scarborough both within Scarborough and outside of it. As well the development at McCowan and Sheppard is going to happen with or without Line 4 so I personally don't think it makes a good argument in flavor of option 2A. Their are arguments to be made, but development isn't one of them.
 
It would be silly to take the bus to McCowan and Sheppard, transfer onto the subway, take it one stop south to STC and then transfer to Line 4 to continue east, when instead you can just stay on the bus and take to straight to Line 4 at Kenndy and Sheppard.
You mean west, right?
 
If you're going past STC further east into Scarborough, you gotta terminate at STC, transfer to line 2 to MCcowan n Sheppard and then continue east along Sheppard.
That is extremely lame
2B (to STC) would be perfect if the RT was still operational and was extended further into the northeast, because the bus hub would have remained at STC (Line 4, Line 3, bus hub).
With Line 2 extended north to Sheppard and a new bus hub being built there, it makes sense to have Sheppard/McCowan as the interchange (2A). (Line 2, Line 4, bus hub)

When the Line 2 extension opens, routes like 129 McCowan N, 130 Middlefield, 131 Nugget, and 132 Milner (and maybe eastern branches of 985 and 85) will probably end at Sheppard/McCowan. Users of those routes would need to travel one stop on line 2 to get the STC regardless.
Only 985A and future DSBRT users really benefit from the 2A alignment (if they are to continue onto Line 4).
 
2B (to STC) would be perfect if the RT was still operational and was extended further into the northeast, because the bus hub would have remained at STC (Line 4, Line 3, bus hub).
With Line 2 extended north to Sheppard and a new bus hub being built there, it makes sense to have Sheppard/McCowan as the interchange (2A). (Line 2, Line 4, bus hub)

When the Line 2 extension opens, routes like 129 McCowan N, 130 Middlefield, 131 Nugget, and 132 Milner (and maybe eastern branches of 985 and 85) will probably end at Sheppard/McCowan. Users of those routes would need to travel one stop on line 2 to get the STC regardless.
Only 985A and future DSBRT users really benefit from the 2A alignment (if they are to continue onto Line 4).
It makes more sense to just move the GO buses to Sheppard/McCowan and make a big hub there.

Shhh. People don't know that the 129, 130, 131, 132 and 169 would end up there. I think once TTC does a survey, everyone will pick the routes to stay at STC.

I really don't think they would keep the 985 once the subway opens. Heck the 85 would run like what runs parallel to Line 4. It might just be once branch from Yonge to McCowan running every 15 minutes or so.
We might see the 10 Van Horne and 169 Huntingwood split up again. The 169 could terminate at Victoria Park/Sheppard Station. The 167 Pharmancy North bus would too.
Since a transfer at Birchmount/Sheppard is difficult without a Birchmount Station, perhaps they could split the 17. Create a Birchmount North route terminating at Warden/Sheppard Station.
Same thing for Midland. Split the 57 and have a Midland North route terminating at Kennedy/Agincourt Station.
 
2B (to STC) would be perfect if the RT was still operational and was extended further into the northeast, because the bus hub would have remained at STC (Line 4, Line 3, bus hub).
With Line 2 extended north to Sheppard and a new bus hub being built there, it makes sense to have Sheppard/McCowan as the interchange (2A). (Line 2, Line 4, bus hub)
The Durham BRT is planned to run to STC. Bin that plan?
 

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