Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[micheal_can]

Hold it...........where did you get this math from?

I just went on GO's website and asked for a fare calculation for Pickering GO to Toronto Union for the next train:

$7.91 is the Presto Fare

By contrast if use DRT to TTC, the one fare rule would be the you pay the fare of the more expensive provider.

So that's $3.35

The savings vs GO is over over $4.55 per direction

Math and underlying facts are important here.

I misunderstood the fare then. I did not realize the Presto fare was across all of Presto. I thought the TTC was still a holdout.
That makes the savings even higher.

 

[Northern Light]

I misunderstood the fare then. I did not realize the Presto fare was across all of Presto. I thought the TTC was still a holdout.
That makes the savings even higher.

The TTC was never a holdout, LOL, it was excluded, which is not the same thing.

It has been included for several months now., with no end of hype surrounding same.

 

[micheal_can]

The TTC was never a holdout, LOL, it was excluded, which is not the same thing.

Similar, but I understand.

It has been included for several months now., with no end of hype surrounding same.

I guess I missed it.

 

[Northern Light]

There is basically nothing in between Scarborough Town Centre and Pickering, except for the zoo, which is served by a bus connecting Rouge Hill GO. And anyone who wants to go to STC or to points further west would be far better served by taking the several bus lines that already run from Pickering to STC.

Ok, hold on there............ Michael's arguments here are not well thought out or evidenced but you don't want to counter them w/hyperbole.

Nothing?

UTSC, Centennial College Scarborough, Centenary Hospital, all huge trip generators. Malvern, a high density population cluster w/more proposed.

Michael's solutions are not supported by the evidence...........but the reason you've given is not why.

 

[nfitz]

Opportunity to build an interchange station at McCowan like Montreal's Snowdon & Lionel-Groulx station allowing future extensions north and east if necessary.

That ship sailed. The station box for Sheppard East is in line with McCowan. Had they built it on a 45-degree, and planned ahead, they could have pulled it off. But we are stuck with another Bloor-Yonge like cross-over ... if we are lucky.

Perhaps worse if Line 4 is elevated at McCowan ... similar to how Line 5 is underground at Don Mills, but Line 3 (Ontario) will be elevated.

 

[Northern Light]

That ship sailed. The station box for Sheppard East is in line with McCowan. Had they built it on a 45-degree, and planned ahead, they could have pulled it off. But we are stuck with another Bloor-Yonge like cross-over ... if we are lucky.

Perhaps worse if Line 4 is elevated at McCowan ... similar to how Line 5 is underground at Don Mills, but Line 3 (Ontario) will be elevated.

It is unlikely that line 4 would be elevated at McCowan...........certainly possible, but not likely.

****

Beyond that..............the SSE going further north has been considered as a future option.

 

[Aplus23]

That is quite interesting, but I completely disagree, Someone who lives in markham or northern scarborugh (myself included) would probably be more screwed over from 2b, since they would have to make an additional transfer on line 2 to get on line 4. For instance if I lived on Mccowan and finch , and I had to go to go work at NYC or Fairview Mall, I would have to take the bus to Sheppard McCowan, and ride one stop to STC, and then transfer to line 4 as opposed to taking the bus and immediatley transfering to Line 4 at sheppard McCowan. Lkewise, If I lived on Morningside and sheppard, and I wanted to take Line 4, I would have to transfer at Sheppard and McCowan, then ride one Stop to STC, and then transfer again to get back on sheppard on Line 4. This one stop on Line 2 just to get on the sheppard line will affect commuters who board routes that will terminate at Sheppard McCowan, Including YRT's future routes

Exactly, 2B really screws over the eastern side of McCowan

 

[micheal_can]

It is unlikely that line 4 would be elevated at McCowan...........certainly possible, but not likely.

****

Beyond that..............the SSE going further north has been considered as a future option.

On the eastern section, where would make sense for an elevated section?

 

[T3G]

Ok, hold on there............ Michael's arguments here are not well thought out or evidenced but you don't want to counter them w/hyperbole.

Nothing?

UTSC, Centennial College Scarborough, Centenary Hospital, all huge trip generators. Malvern, a high density population cluster w/more proposed.

Michael's solutions are not supported by the evidence...........but the reason you've given is not why.

I will concede the neighbourhood of Malvern. However, none of the other locations you've listed are anywhere near Sheppard Avenue, and wouldn't benefit from the subway unless the STC alignment was chosen - which is possible, but no sure thing. If the terminus at McCowan is chosen, you're not going to exit from a station along Sheppard, having come from either direction, and walk to any of these places. Centennial College is more than a kilometre to the south, UTSC and Centenary around 2 km.

Now I will also concede that I suppose it's possible the subway could be diverted to serve these places, but considering the proposed plan to extend as far east as Meadowvale, and none to serve these spots, I assume that was not on the table.

 

[Northern Light]

On the eastern section, where would make sense for an elevated section?

I've answered that question partially, already, in respect of option 2B.

2A is a bit more convoluted, there are options to go up, but whether any make huge sense is......a bit of an open question.

 

[Northern Light]

I will concede the neighbourhood of Malvern. However, none of the other locations you've listed are anywhere near Sheppard Avenue, and wouldn't benefit from the subway unless the STC alignment was chosen - which is possible, but no sure thing. If the terminus at McCowan is chosen, you're not going to exit from a station along Sheppard, having come from either direction, and walk to any of these places. Centennial College is more than a kilometre to the south, UTSC and Centenary around 2 km.

Now I will also concede that I suppose it's possible the subway could be diverted to serve these places, but considering the proposed plan to extend as far east as Meadowvale, and none to serve these spots, I assume that was not on the table.

Go back and read my posts in this thread, today, please. I have outlined how a northern alignment could still serve these (obviously cutting south east of Markham)

 

[micheal_can]

I've answered that question partially, already, in respect of option 2B.

2A is a bit more convoluted, there are options to go up, but whether any make huge sense is......a bit of an open question.

I did mean 2A. I can see how parts of 2B could be elevated.

 

[nfitz]

Beyond that..............the SSE going further north has been considered as a future option.

They've pretty much always designed a terminus with an extension in mind.

Though that didn't really help at Kennedy, as they are ripping up the tunnel east of the platform, to drop it deeper, to get it to the elevation of bore tunnels, and to build the two-level structure for the storage track.

I have outlined how a northern alignment could still serve these (obviously cutting south east of Markham)

The subway works best when it doesn't follow the road grid and gives faster options. Such as the Danforth subway between Victoria Park and Kennedy. And parts of the Spadina line.

The 401 is such a barrier, that perhaps a line that crosses it 2 or 3 (or 4?) times might be more useful than dead straight along Sheppard. Look at the Jubilee line in London that crosses the Thames no less than 4 times!

 

[Northern Light]

They've pretty much always designed a terminus with an extension in mind.

Often the case; I was merely making the point that the extensions suggests are not precluded by what 's envisioned.

Though that didn't really help at Kennedy, as they are ripping up the tunnel east of the platform, to drop it deeper, to get it to the elevation of bore tunnels, and to build the two-level structure for the storage track.

Don't get me started on what Mx has done at Kennedy..............not the fault of the original subway design crew here............the crayon crew makes a mess far too often.

 

[nfitz]

Often the case; I was merely making the point that the extensions suggests are not precluded by what 's envisioned.

Indeed!

And nothing stopping them completely changing their mind later. Recall the Green line in Montreal. Everyone keeps talking about Lionel-Groulx (the first station past Atwater) being so great.

But that was never the plan. Originally it was built on the assumption going to keep going west towards NDG. And then, they end up looping it 180 degrees to run east through Lionel Groulx, and then turn west again, in a big S-bend, actually going so far west, that it passes directly underneath Westmount High School.

On paper it looks like a horrific detour. But living there, it's not a big deal. And it works. Someone posted this above, but here it is again. Pretend you are a Montrealer, and west is actually southwest.