Sheppard Line 4 Subway Extension (Proposed)

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I agree the the RT extension would have been good if it was connected to the Crosstown seamlessly. Council refused to let Ford have the win and overturned it. It would have been great and so is the current 3 stop line. Whatever moves ahead will be a big improvement. Tough to feel sorry for the extra cost at this stage after a dysfunctional council tried to hack in LRT or build a one stop subway.

I dont agree on Sheppard as I see the opposite. It looks ok as a line on a map but in reality we would have added a transfer that doesn't exist. Does anyone seriously listen to residents and commuters who live here or even want people to like public transit? Seriously, we don't need more transfers introduced, moreso the absurd location that disconnect the Centre further. And its even more disrespectful not to connect the Centre when an existing line was already started and we are connected Vaughan and soon Richmond Hill. If we were forced to compromise to move forard on council id be OK with a 3 stop subway and full local LRT loop from the Crosstown to Sheppard. But heavily prefer the subways connecting the Centre as a complete backbone.

Good on Ford for taking the file away from the City for good for both planing and funding. It was well earned by a few Councillors who dislike this the most. I support Sheppard as a subway and I fully support any connected plan with stops the Province moves forward as the RT will have kicked the bucket.

No way. The Subway to LRT transfer would look so ugly on the map. Design matters, and having the subway got to McCowan or STC looks so much cleaner and efficient. Also, access to Wilson yard. Now trains won't have to go to Davisville or wherever. But, one not not. if this goes to Sheppard west, there will be a forced transfer at Sheppard West, for people in Steeles/Vaughan. Something to think about.

Really? You mean voters in London didn't make Scarborough getting a subway extension their main voting priority?

Side note. you want to see an area with problems? At least we all know that something is happening in Scarborough. The fight to get a BRT there was ridiculous, and even worse then the Scarborough events.

 

[BurlOak]

A Crosstown LRT across the Centre into Malvern LRT was a great option, even the BDL on that RT corridor with a bit of extra work was great and saw a bit of savings. But Keep in mind that was not part of Transit City and it was Rob Ford and McGuinty who tabled that plan to move forward. This should have been an easy resolution by council to agree, moreso when it was recommended by Metrolinx. Unfortunate to say the least.

So many things about this upset me.
In the 2010 campaign, Ford wanted Sheppard subway extended to STC, and B-D extended to STC.
He compromised on both. Agreeing to have the combined Eglinton-Scarbrough LRT, and agreeing that it is a priority over the Sheppard Subway.
The other thing that was clear was that Ford did not object to elevated transit. There were some rumblings of elevation in late 2010 and early 2011, and Ford had no objection. All Ford wanted was for transit to not interfere with cars - which oddly would result in cars not interfering with transit. They could have elevated portions of Eglinton if the goal was to save money.
Now we see Ford (the different one), is still willing to put Sheppard on the back-burner and increase the priority of the DRL - as long as the transit is grade-separated.
It does appear that Ford would have agreed to any type of grade-separated transit back in 2012 - but nobody wanted to work with him.

 

[JasonParis]

Because the replacement of the Scarborough RT was a grade-separated LRT and he lied his pants off and complained streetcars would be rolling through Scarborough's streets. And that's just one example.

 

[syn]

I love this revisionist history that paints Ford as a transit champion.

Ford did not make the Eglinton Scarborough LRT a priority over the Sheppard Subway. He wanted all available funding used to bury the Eglinton LRT and said the Sheppard Subway would be privately funded and operational by 2015.

The DRL wasn't even on the radar. In fact, Ford told everyone that 'downtown has enough subways'.

 

[syn]

No way. The Subway to LRT transfer would look so ugly on the map. Design matters, and having the subway got to McCowan or STC looks so much cleaner and efficient. Also, access to Wilson yard. Now trains won't have to go to Davisville or wherever. But, one not not. if this goes to Sheppard west, there will be a forced transfer at Sheppard West, for people in Steeles/Vaughan. Something to think about.


Side note. you want to see an area with problems? At least we all know that something is happening in Scarborough. The fight to get a BRT there was ridiculous, and even worse then the Scarborough events.

It's a very contentious issue there. The views can be as black and white as the Scarborough transit (subways good, LRTs bad).

 

[ViveleCanada]

I love this revisionist history that paints Ford as a transit champion.

Ford did not make the Eglinton Scarborough LRT a priority over the Sheppard Subway. He wanted all available funding used to bury the Eglinton LRT and said the Sheppard Subway would be privately funded and operational by 2015.

The DRL wasn't even on the radar. In fact, Ford told everyone that 'downtown has enough subways'.

Don't forget the time he suggested replacing streetcars with buses.

https://globalnews.ca/news/1260779/rob-ford-talks-transit-more-subways-no-more-streetcars/

I wouldn't say he was the worst mayor as he was very keen on keeping in touch with residents (actually gave out his number and answered it which is unheard of in politics). But he seemed to go a little too far in standing up for the "ignored suburbanite" in some cases.

 

[JasonParis]

The job of a Mayor isn't to keep in touch with residents and to take all their calls. It's impossible and bogged him down, thus ignoring the big picture issues, like economic development, which is what we actually have a mayor for.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

It's a very contentious issue there. The views can be as black and white as the Scarborough transit (subways good, LRTs bad).

They cut off half the plan. And why would they bury LRT in London? Same problems. But I digress.

 

[OneCity]

I love this revisionist history that paints Ford as a transit champion.

Ford did not make the Eglinton Scarborough LRT a priority over the Sheppard Subway. He wanted all available funding used to bury the Eglinton LRT and said the Sheppard Subway would be privately funded and operational by 2015.

The DRL wasn't even on the radar. In fact, Ford told everyone that 'downtown has enough subways'.

I dont believe anyone had said Ford was the transit champion but all the historical points described were all fact. I would never call Ford a transit champion for many reasons outside of infrastructure but he was a champion of fixing the legitimate issues with Transit City. Those that extremely hate Ford the most prefer not to discuss certain facts about him supporting LRT and who stopped it and likely still admit to no flaws in Transit City. Also remember the DRL wasn't on the radar with Miller when Ford came in.

Fords statements were signalling and defending his base of inner-suburban voters who clearly were none too thrilled and sick of hearing about the "Downtown priority" that was impacting major decisions outside of DT. He tapped into a massive pool of apathy created by poor leadership representation and the City should have responded much better during his term. A message was sent when he was elected and many on council responded poorly, and still have. Tory has been great for respecting all areas and being vocal about bridging gaps. Im also thankful Doug has put transit building in far less polarized grounds with no one to stop the current plans and with far great access to financing for any party moving forward. So even if you truly believe Doug is full of it on transit infrastructure the capacity will be greater there in the future for any party to deliver.

Including the self proclaimed subway champion Liberals who sat back on the DRL for decades and watched the Scarborough subway they brought to the table get destroyed.

 

[Hopkins123]

Objectively speaking, "The Right" canceled a shovel ready rapid transit expansion in Scarborough nearly a decade ago and has absolutely nothing to show for it. Now we're being told it may be ready in another decade.

Riders on the Spadina Line routinely have to transfer to a streetcar. Transfers are a normal part of the transit experience.

I can understand not wanting an LRT on Sheppard, but ridership justifies it. If a subway is what people want then they should have to wait - there are far greater priorities on the system.

Okay, if you say so. I didn't realize Karen Stintz, John Parker and Glenn DeBearemaker were "The Right" when they orchestrated the coup de'tat to wrestle away control of the transit file from Ford when the Memorandum of Understanding would have gotten us true fully grade-separated rapid transit from Mt Dennis to Malvern Town Centre.

They were the brainchilds of the present day McCowan alignment Bloor-Danforth extension, not Rob or Doug Ford. Rob Ford circa 2010 wanted a subway alignment up the SRT corridor much like the Glen Murray alignment which itself came to prominence later in 2013. You see? Isn't history fun? Everyone has had a hand in screwing up things for Scarborough, starting all the way back to the 1980s.

But as far as priorities goes, the order of things as they are now are likely the most fair: DRL, Yonge North, SSE, Sheppard with EWLRT happening somewhere concurrently with these other projects. If the Tories can pull this off and another gov't doesn't come along and cancel things, which why would they as this is actually a good plan, by 2030 there'll probably be shovels in the ground on all these projects.

 

[Hopkins123]

So essentially what you are saying is that you are so happy to have a Conservative in power you are willing to eat up any horse shit he serves you.

Considering my entire adult life there's only been one party in power, yes excuse me for a second for being a bit enthused that there's finally an alternative to Liberal rule. Liberal tyranny really, bit I digress. "Horse shit" was electing someone in a by-election in 2013 claiming to be a "subway champion" who'll see to it that there's shovels in the ground on SSE within months and yet six years later here we are. I guess when contrasting what the Conservatives might do compared to what the Liberals have actually done, I have cause for cautious optimism.

 

[nfitz]

I guess when contrasting what the Conservatives might do compared to what the Liberals have actually done, I have cause for cautious optimism.

Optimism? How is this not similar to the gross incompetence and cuts to transit funding and infrastructure funding, and delayed projects, the last time we put the Tories in power, in 1995?

I suppose it might be optimistic for straight white-male developers ... but I think everyone else is clearly taking it deep up the butt - especially in Scarborough with every transit project that has been planned either delayed, indefinitely delayed, or cancelled.

 

[OneCity]

Optimism? How is this not similar to the gross incompetence and cuts to transit funding and infrastructure funding, and delayed projects, the last time we put the Tories in power, in 1995?

I suppose it might be optimistic for straight white-male developers ... but I think everyone else is clearly taking it deep up the butt - especially in Scarborough with every transit project that has been planned either delayed, indefinitely delayed, or cancelled.

For the record many of the developers inthe GTA are Asian and Indian descent. Although if you're truly concerned the owners of the company profitting the most off Millers term might fit better into the criteria of your baseless mongering.

Anyhow carry on with the thoughts of the party fixing and funding some brutal transit lines voters of all races do support in these extrmely diverse multicultural areas they are being built.

 

[narduch]

Considering my entire adult life there's only been one party in power, yes excuse me for a second for being a bit enthused that there's finally an alternative to Liberal rule. Liberal tyranny really, bit I digress. "Horse shit" was electing someone in a by-election in 2013 claiming to be a "subway champion" who'll see to it that there's shovels in the ground on SSE within months and yet six years later here we are. I guess when contrasting what the Conservatives might do compared to what the Liberals have actually done, I have cause for cautious optimism.

So he delayed the line 4 additional years. The new version isn't even in design. We don't know if it's even funded. And you are optimistic.

This is called cognitive dissonance

 

[Hopkins123]

So he delayed the line 4 additional years. The new version isn't even in design. We don't know if it's even funded. And you are optimistic.

This is called cognitive dissonance

But in the same breath he's committing to building over 30 km of new subways citywide. Sure looking at Scarborough in isolation it may look bad to you, but it's better than the Liberal's plan which only would've built the one stop extension with no provisions for a Lawrence East stop, no extension to Sheppard, no eventual Sheppard "Loop", no DRL west of Osgoode or northeast of Pape Station, no grade-separated Eglinton West. Their 15 year plan compared to the PC's pales in comparison. IMHO, your own biases are showing, if this were a Liberal or NDP government proposing all this, you'd be tickled pink.

And note, I said "cautious" optimism. Anything could happen, yes, but at least we now have a vision/blueprint that is good for the city as a whole. Remember too that TYSSE was delayed by almost 3 years itself in actuality. A dying 2018 government's vain hail Mary pass of a proposed 2026 opening date means nothing to me when City Council had decided on the McCowan alignment from 2013, backed that with a $910 million capital budget from that time and the Harper government same year committed another $630 million to make it happen. And what did the Provincial Liberals do with all that good will, cooperation and earmarked funding ever since? Who's being cognitively dissonant now?