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Shabby Toronto

However, the counterpoint to that is: upon visiting Paris, we're latently true masters of subverting the touristy itinerary by buying our goods at Ed l'Epicier, instead. In a way, we're best capable of wheedling out the inner "shabbiness" of *anywhere* we go.

As far as draconian liquor laws go: big deal, I don't drink.
 
There is no doubt that large parts of downtown Toronto have a somewhat 3rd world feel. To be honest I sort of like that, it is vibrant particularly in the summer. It would be nice if we could preserve that funkiness in certain areas and have a more modern 'nice' feel in others.

I like Queen west/Spadina as is (posters and all) I would hate to see these places change their flavour.

Yonge Street is a National disgrace - it is main street Canada for visitors and it is tacky, tacky, tacky. How many Fleabag dollar stores and headshops can you possibly squeeze into a block! - I hate those new light standards - those are not going to age well so I hope they aren't up for too long. *Note to city: light poles should not be bright primary colors!!! HELLO!!!

Sometimes I look at those square cracked tree planters with a dead stump tree and think to myself we really should be able to do better than this.

Toronto has an incredible amount of wealth, but it is private wealth that doesn't seem to filter down to street level.
 
for a city that spend 8 billion it does worse then some cities that spend only 100 million for their budget.
 
^^^^

I'm not really sure, maybe the city is just mismanaged?

One thing I noticed in NYC is there are private business improvement associations in various areas of the city that provide supplemental cleaning landscaping etc.

You always see guys in jumpsuit uniforms with brooms cleaning up litter, it looks like that is their full time job. Again, that is probably only in Manhattan but it seems to work. Toronto would probably discourage that, as the unions wouldn't want private organizations on their turf.

I think after a while people just get used to the litter and general shabbyness and just aren't even aware of it. It really only struck me after spending some time in NYC. When you compare Broadway to Yonge street, each cities' respective 'main drag' it is VERY apparent that something has gone horribly wrong in Toronto.

It feels kind of weird to me because Torontonians have always had a sort of moral superiority about how clean and tidy their city was - especially compared to New York. We would grudgingly concede that New york was a much more interesting city - But at least Toronto was 'Run by the Swiss'!

It seems like things are turned on their heads now. Every New Yorker complains that Manhattan has become less interesting, an Island of wealthy investment bankers, while Toronto is becoming a more funky, dirtier place.
 
Jitterbugg said:
It seems like things are turned on their heads now. Every New Yorker complains that Manhattan has become less interesting, an Island of wealthy investment bankers, while Toronto is becoming a more funky, dirtier place.
Click to expand...

Wow. Thanks for praising Toronto, then. Funky? Dirtier? Mmmm, it's like we're back in the golden age of Max's Kansas City...
 
And you'll have to decide for yourself whether "an island of wealthy investment bankers" is a positive attribute...
 
true.

But that's for New Yorkers to figure out.

There was an article in the New York Times last sunday about how many people were happy about the Bear Sterns debacle and hope more financial institutions fail so normal people will be able to afford an apartment again.

The flip side of the coin is the massive tax base those high rollers provide pays for the police and other services that keep the city safe and spiffy looking, so people should be careful what they wish for.

I do get the feeling that without a healthy economy and massive police presence that place could quickly go off the rails again.
 
I guess when I think "shabby" I think crumbling buildings, abandoned warehouses, houses with garbage in their yard, and gutted cars on the streets.
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But all of those are in the private realm. What we're talking about here is the public realm. Private buildings in Toronto are, on the whole, as well-maintained or better than anywhere else in the world. The difference lies in the public realm, where it seems like virtually no care is taken to keep up some kind of aesthetic standard.

I'm actually inclined to believe that a little bit of shabbiness in the private realm isn't a bad thing at all. I agree that it's a sign of vitality, and it's pretty unavoidable. Obviously it would be ideal for every business to keep its premises pristine, but I think the market can sort that out. It'd be a shame if all we had was a monoculture of chains and high-end stores, however well-kept they might be.

On the other hand, the public realm should be maintained to as high a standard as possible, especially in the heavily-frequented commercial areas. There shouldn't be hazardous cracked sidewalks, ugly poles and rat's nests of elevated hydro wires, dead trees, broken planters, and all the other serious issues that are common in Toronto. Unfortunately, these problems have become so widespread that people are accustomed to them. They assume there's no better way, and they even resent spending on a little beautification. The Mayor's Clean and Beautiful City project is small and had few accomplishments, but travelling up University Avenue in the summer and seeing the truly beautiful flowers actually brightened my day. Those plantings were amazing, and they show what the city can do if it puts its mind to it. If only we could expand the program a hundredfold and spread it all around the city.

As for New York, the NYPD has been shrinking for years, and so have crime rates. The police played an important role in wrestling the city back from its downhill spiral during the crack epidemic, but I think it's a bit exaggerated and there are a lot of other factors making New York the safe city it is today.
 
Very well put.

In a vibrant city things get a little shopworn and so forth as people going about their business cause wear and tear, as well as garbage. But there isn't an excuse for Victorian powerlines, cracked sidewalks, and general lack of maintenance on the infrastructure that makes up the city.

The drunken poles really bother me. There is a stretch of Weston, between St. Clair and Rogers, where there are poles that have remained in palce since the early 1900's. I know this as I saw an archival photograph of this stretch, and I could recognize the poles. Some have been replaced, but still 100+ year old poles?
 
With respect to the comment about Torontonian's being cheap and having contempt for aesthetics I kind of agree but this still doesn't address why? My theory is that while this is cultural much of it is temporary in nature. People here are both (relatively) accepting and tolerant and focused on quality of life over quality of pursuit. This is good in many ways but deadly in terms of shabbiness, which is something that I contend extends far beyond the public realm and is most concerning on private property.

Take the example of small commercial buildings lining our streets. I happen to know many owners of such buildings and most are old immigrants who purchased these buildings as a means of supporting themselves because the job market was and still to some extent remains hostile to immigrants and visible minorities. They consider a profitable building good and if they really care a litter free property. This is survival instinct, it is not bad or good but capital improvements take money, surplus money above survival, and therefore taking on risk. Taking on risk requires stability, confidence and means. Slowly we are seeing improvements to this class of building because a new generation or more sophisticated investors are taking over these properties. The results are dramatic. There has probably been more money put into addressing aesthetic concerns on commercial buildings in the last 5-years in this city as the last 30 years combined. There was a comment for instance about Yonge Street shabby. Still true but have you noticed how few dollar stores etc. still exist and how many of the buildings or commercial tenants have invested in their building's aesthetic concerns in the last number of years?

We can take the public realm as an extention of this argument. How can we consider investing in the public realm as essential when we have just begun to re-invest in our own properties? We are slowly considering it. That is one reason why the number of BIA's in the city has exploded and why the city itself is putting more and more consideration into this issue.
 
Jitterbugg said:
It seems like things are turned on their heads now. Every New Yorker complains that Manhattan has become less interesting, an Island of wealthy investment bankers, while Toronto is becoming a more funky, dirtier place.
Click to expand...

Toronto is the centre of wealthy investment bankers for Canada, just on a much smaller scale compared to NYC. I think more specifically Manhattan has become an Island of extreme wealth, where it has gotten to the point where gentrification and commercialization has almost completely cleaned out the grittiness of funkier nabes.
That's not to say Manhattan has necessarily become less interesting (every New Yorker does not complain about this). It has become less interesting in certain aspects, but these developments are the same reason for large numbers of celebrities moving in. Of course the reasons a Chris Martin or Norah Jones live in Manhattan could be the opposite of interesting for some, but for mainstream America and especially Toronto, it would be a very fitting guage and the main goal of urbanity.
 
poppajojo said:
Toronto is the centre of wealthy investment bankers for Canada, just on a much smaller scale compared to NYC. I think more specifically Manhattan has become an Island of extreme wealth, where it has gotten to the point where gentrification and commercialization has almost completely cleaned out the grittiness of funkier nabes.
That's not to say Manhattan has necessarily become less interesting (every New Yorker does not complain about this). It has become less interesting in certain aspects, but these developments are the same reason for large numbers of celebrities moving in. Of course the reasons a Chris Martin or Norah Jones live in Manhattan could be the opposite of interesting for some, but for mainstream America and especially Toronto, it would be a very fitting guage and the main goal of urbanity.
Click to expand...


I placed this link up on another post aswell, but this is the sort of thing that is 'interesting' 'dirty' 'funky' about old New York that you just can't get in any other city. This sort of stuff is largely gone in Manhattan (these are all Brooklyn) - mom and pop type independent businesses. Now days other than small bodegas you need to have very deep pockets to set up even a small business on Manhattan.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/gkjarvis/sets/72157594485094784/

I personally love this stuff but I don't see how things like this can last much longer.

I started taking similar type photos across Toronto and I can assure you We don't have nearly as many interesting things to photograph.
 
I don't go to Toronto enough these days to comment on it's shabbiness but I do love the city I was born in and every time that I do visit I feel "big city" excitement!
 
it is a very urban and vibrant place but I don't think that is an excuse to keep Yonge street looking like its current condition.
 
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