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saveoursubways (SOS)
- Thread starter kEiThZ
- Start date
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Ansem
Banned
For reason I already explain, Sheppard west has to be there on phase I
Bathurst-Sheppard
Connection to the Wilson Yard
Connecting Downsview to STC--True Rapid North Crosstown
Downsview is growing fast
Sheppard west getting more dense
Eliminating unnecessary transfer
Sheppard west is too narrow for BRT or LRT
Congestion at peak point makes the service desastrous
Adding more buses or articulate buses changes nothing since they are trap in circulation.
Metrolinx already included Sheppard west in the Scenario to be study
The west extension add connectivity and efficiency to the network...(The subway is already there)
kettal
Banned
Can you name ONE destination that will be faster by subway than by GO, or GO + a transfer to subway at Kipling?
Didn't think so.
Honestly, of all subway proposals, this one is a solution in desperate search of a problem.
Fresh Start
Banned
It's not Mississauga-bashing. No more than I think not building the Richmond Hill extension is York Region bashing. These are satellite urban centres deserving of their own transit solutions not composite of an endless chain of meandering subway stops. It in no way benefits the majority of 905-416 commuters to have to sit aboard the subway for over a hour to get to the downtown when they are faster and more cost-effective means with which to transport the loads. We should be aiming towards load distribution not the mentality of having all commuters converge onto one single trunk line as the only rapid means of entering the city. That's what irks me so with these RHC planning schemes, when the bulk of commuters into Finch Stn and the downtown are from Beaver Creek eastwards and would be better served via beefed-up RH GO plus LRT/BRT down Don Mills, Warden and McCowan.
Fare-integrating the Milton Line with one's local bus ticket and having headways reduced to every 5-10 minutes is far more beneficial and more affordable for ALL of Mississauga (Dixie, Cooksville, Erindale, Streetsville, Meadowvale, Lisgar; and Long Branch, Port Credit and Clarkson per electrification of the Lakeshore corridor). If met by a grade-separated LRT line which runs directly into SQ1/CCTT, that's only one transfer needed to connect to a rapid transit feeder with which to enter the downtown core.
Do you honestly think that there's a high demand from Mississaugans to go to places like Old Mill, Runnymede and Christie? The reality is that most commuters are destined for points off YUS, and getting them there in the least time possible should be our focus.
Fresh Start
Banned
Isn't pushing for a subway to replace a bus route that carries a grand total of 16,000ppd (from Yonge all the way to Weston Rd plus numerous branches) a little too greedy? Even if roughly half of that figure only commuted between the two YUS branches that's still far below the minimum threshold required for subways. Meanwhile a subway that would be highly trafficked from day one (DRL West) is also absent from the first phase. My point, sacrifices have to be made.
Your points are debatable nonetheless. Sheppard-Bathurst is not a destination. I can list off countless intersections with a high-rise cluster that aren't on any kind of radar to relieve subways, case in point the even denser intersection Bathurst has with Steeles Ave. Bathurst at this point is easily within 5 minutes of the subway via the 196E, so why build a billion dollar subway feeder that'll only be a few minutes faster (or not at all faster given the likelihood of a stopover at Senlac en route).
How do you incorporate a wye to/from the YUS and Sheppard Lines at Downsview given alignment constraints? You'd have to retrofit the existing tunnel at the very least. And will Wilson even have the space for Sheppard trainsets after the YUS expansions let alone space taken up by storage of some Eglinton cars?
Downsview is developing, which is why it already has its own subway. The detached single dwelling households which line Sheppard from Wilson Hts to Beecroft don't look to be going anywhere any time soon though.
And what unnecessary transfer? How many people are seriously traveling straight across Sheppard through Yonge, and not seeking to just get off at that juncture? What market will there be left for such a connection after the Finch LRT stretches from Rexdale to Fairview Mall. Not York U. Certainly not Vaughan. I never thought I'd be quoting kettal but I'd file Shep West under a soultion for a problem that doesn't exist. It may seem that way for you because you personally live off Sheppard and regularly commute in this manner, but it doesn't serve a greater good nor purpose.
LeonSKennedy
New Member
Have any flyers been produced for printing purposes to spread the word?
kEiThZ
Superstar
We have drafts. But we want to get the website up before anything else.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Will the flyers be in different languages?
kEiThZ
Superstar
Does that matter for a community group? What we put out depends on what resources we have.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
I agree. There is nothing along Sheppard between Yonge and Bathurst to warrant a subway extention. The bus service is very adequate!
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
You want to have the Sheppard Subway extended through Agincourt (a heavily populated Chinese neighbourhood). You mean you won't even put a flyer in Mandarin or Cantonese? If you want a ton of support for your plans, you need to get the message out as best as you could
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kEiThZ
Superstar
If you want to design a poster in Mandarin or Cantonese, we'd be more than happy to use it.
Dan416
Senior Member
um, anyone who actually wants to travel along the corridor will find it useful. Let's see, anyone who lives west of MCC, anyone who lives at MCC, Central Pkwy, Cawthra, Tomken, Dixie and wants to travel to Sherway, Kipling, Islington, Dufferin, etc will find that one ride more useful and faster than trekking all the way to a GO station and schlepping to Kipling and then transferring there (and they still wouldn't be able to reach Sherway quickly).
So yeah there's no demand at all if all you want to do is reach Union quickly. Clearly, GO ridership and MT/TTC ridership are completely different.
Fresh Start
Banned
There's not enough demand. You'd be surprised just how heavily the lack of fare integration of minimal rush-hour only headways plays into the reason why so many Mississaugans are bussed into Islington. Remove those obstacles and watch the ridership of one method grow and the other collapse. Instead of folk crowding onto the 9 or 10 buses bound for SQ1, they'd board REX commuter rail from within Streetsville and Meadowvale and save on travel time. Likewise everyone at South Commons whom use the 26 bus to connect to SQ1 and utlimately Toronto, would just get off at Creditview, board the train and be downtown in less than 40 minutes. The relevancy and reliance on CCTT goes way down as other solutions become available. Like I said earlier no 905er wants to sit through agonizing stops at Old Mill, Runnymede and Christie. Over 85% are likely bound for the YUS loop.
What Mississauga really needs now is a streetcar subway between Lakeshore and Eglinton which diverts directly into CCTT en route. An off-shoot of this LRT can run adjcent the train tracks to a Sherway Gdns subway station, resulting in only one transfer point between Mississisauga City Centre and the subway. I've suggested the same; utilizing the York and Bala Subs for access to Richmond Hill Centre, but seem to be getting accused of heresy for suggesting such practical solutions.
Dan416
Senior Member
85%? Did you know that 75% of statistics are made up? Yeah including that one. Unless you have some concrete studies saying where people who are headed for Kipling/Islington are going, don't make claims you can't support. If regional express is good enough for Mississauga, how is it not good enough for Richmond Hill? IIRC there is a Richmond Hill GO line.
As for converting Milton to regional express, that's not going to come cheap, with CP in the way. How much will it cost to buy the corridor from them? How about to reroute it through MCC? MCC will only grow in importance as more condos are built there. You'd be hard-pressed to call it "Downtown Mississauga" right now, but in the future?
Add to that, it's already denser, more populated and more transit-friendly than VCC.
This isn't a subway to nowhere near VCC. There are over 1 MILLION people in Peel Region, over 700,000 people in Mississauga alone. You can't tell me Mississaugans wouldn't benefit or use a subway connecting MCC and Kipling. You can't argue ridership won't grow dramatically. And you certainly can't argue that ridership to VCC will be higher now, or even when VCC is fully built out.
Like any subway, people would go out of their way to take a subway through Mississauga if its get them to their destination faster. It would take all the ridership of Dundas (assuming a Dundas alignment), which is one of the top corridors in Mississauga, probably only behind Hurontario, and it would funnel ridership from Bloor, Burnhamthorpe, Rathburn, basically anyone at Square One who wants to travel to Kipling and beyond.
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