TOareaFan
Superstar
What we need, clearly then, is for Metrolinx to take over the TTC....if only to make all this threadjacking of this topic now relevant and on point!
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saveoursubways (SOS)
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What we need, clearly then, is for Metrolinx to take over the TTC....if only to make all this threadjacking of this topic now relevant and on point!
What we need, clearly then, is for Metrolinx to take over the TTC....if only to make all this threadjacking of this topic now relevant and on point!
Haha, I'm all for fare integration (and plan integration), but I think the systems are better off separate. The bigger the system (and agency running the system), the bigger the chance is for inefficency, corruption, and incompetence. Smaller systems are generally run more efficently. And if there is fare and route integration, what difference does it make if the bus you're riding on has TTC on the side of it or MT, or BT, or OT, or DRT?
TOareaFan
Superstar
ermmmm.....I was joking that such a takeover would, at least, make this seem like a more on-topic/focused thread!
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
No, this is good. I was thinking that since we're going to Mississauga anyway maybe we could extend the Bloor-Danforth subway even further and put the terminus at Ford Drive & Royal Windsor in Oakville? Station could be called "Ford Plant." It would be right near my parents' house which would be incredibly convenient for, I presume, a lot of riders and also, coincidentally, me.
TOareaFan
Superstar
In the off chance that particularly amusing doze of sarchasm was directed at me....I (again) am not advocating/wanting/suggesting subways to my neck of the woods....simply saying that whatever is done in Mississauga along Highway 10 should be continued as one service to the downtown core of Brampton to connect with another GO line, a centre of growing population density and the core of a city of 500k people......notice I did not say run a subway to the Chrysler plant in Brampton.
If it was not directed at me, I am sorry for reacting but the proximity to my post made me wonder.
Juan_Lennon416
Senior Member
Just curious but how do you think Steve 'The Biker' Munro will react to your plan? Do you think he would accept some aspects of the plan or just come out of the gate and reject everything?
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Fresh Start
Banned
^ I thought Steve Munro was the driving force advocating Transit City. I sincerely doubt he'd approve of us dismantling so much of his vision.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
He just posted his thoughts on transit in the city - it'd be a good opportunity for someone from SOS to comment with a polite rebuttal.
Fresh Start
Banned
The Hurontario LRT plan was always meant to terminate at Brampton GO Stn, and not Shoppers World. As a precursor to the service, I'm curious as to why the 102 Innercity Loop doesn't continue along Main St into downtown Brampton? Seems like a no-brainer. But I would hope that the Hwy 10 Line (for simplification) could run underground south of Eglinton, road median between Eg and the 401, side-of-roadway alignment to the Brampton border, then underground north of Nanwood. At least that way it'd proabaly only take 45 minutes to get from Port Credit to Brampton terminal. Don't worry, thread-hijacking's over.
nfitz
Superstar
He's also been advocating that HRT subway is a better choice for the Don Mills line south of Eglinton, the DRL through downtown, and for Yonge north of Finch. He's hardly an idealogue. He will be quick to point out that the passenger ridership doesn't justify the additional expense of subway, particularily for sections where LRT is going to be just as fast.
I would agree that he's not an "LRT will work everywhere!" type of person, but I think he has over-exaggerated the usefulness of LRT in certain situations.
I also bring into question the TTC's "numbers" in certain instances, particularly those that were studied as recently as 10 years ago, and were concluded that subway was the best option. But with the TC studies, the numbers have mysteriously dropped below the threshold of HRT, and are now perfect for LRT. Like on Sheppard East where in 2001 the TTC studies concluded 8500 pph, but in 2007, it was only 5000 pph? Did they knock down condos there in the past 10 years?
Even on capacity numbers: the TTC says that by 2031 the Yonge line south of Bloor will be carrying 39,000 peak hour, but Metrolinx says 42,000. That's still a pretty big swing.
So yes, he may not be an LRT fanboy, but I think he accepts the most recent TTC numbers a little too much at face value. They were drawn up (along with the lofty cost projections for subway construction), with the pre-conceived intention of justifying LRT. The numbers were catered to fit the 'solution', not the other way around, as it is in most planning processes.
Ansem
Banned
Not only that,
There's also the obsession of putting Sheppard east LRT as the absolute #1 priority above evertything else in this city, above DRL, Eglinton LRT (if they deliver on the speed would be more acceptable and a bargain) and Malvern with the Pan Am games and Finch West....
Its way too suspicious...
TTC has 0 credibility in they're numbers...
I mean, its just insulting the way they take people for imbeciles then again, they know the majority don't read studies...even the media
8400 pph east of Don Mills vs 5000 (justifying LRT)
Its ridiculous...
no numbers
no explanation to the drop...
It's our job to expose them
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Thankfully for us we have public opinion on our side. The TTC has spent a lot of money trying to sell TC to the public. We don't need to. People know how subways work. People know THAT subways work. People prefer subways over LRT. A good portion of the 'convincing campaign' to the general public is already done for us.
Now all we have to do is convince those who a) had a say in TC, b) were powerless to stop TC, but next mayoral election will have the power to stop it, and c) those who are coming up through the ranks who will have influence, that our plan is in fact better for Toronto in the long run than TC is, ESPECIALLY because they'll cost the same.
nfitz
Superstar
Isnt the one the long-term estimate for HRT, and the other the estimate for LRT? Either way, neither is below the HRT threshold.
A 7% difference is a big swing? In transport demand modelling? I'd say that that is suprisingly similiar!
The lofty cost projections for subway construction that on the Spadina line are now appearing to be low, now that they are being costed in detail as part of the final design.
LowerBay
Active Member
Even Metrolinx, who was pro-subway on Eglinton, had to back off. We can't even afford light rail, let alone subways.
As for Steve Munro, I respect his opinion, but I've told him many times that he doesn't realize that, at a subconscious level, his advocacy is tainted by railfanism and his total lack of experience driving a car. Those two things can quickly change one's viewpoint.
If an Eglinton subway and DRL were built, I'd run them together ... crosstown Pearson-Kennedy, Pearson-Kennedy via downtown DRL, and every other train on the DRL in both directions would loop using the central trackage on Eglinton. This would eliminate all transfers and provide an even headway over both lines.
As for Steve Munro, I respect his opinion, but I've told him many times that he doesn't realize that, at a subconscious level, his advocacy is tainted by railfanism and his total lack of experience driving a car. Those two things can quickly change one's viewpoint.
If an Eglinton subway and DRL were built, I'd run them together ... crosstown Pearson-Kennedy, Pearson-Kennedy via downtown DRL, and every other train on the DRL in both directions would loop using the central trackage on Eglinton. This would eliminate all transfers and provide an even headway over both lines.
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