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Sam's Sign and the Yonge Street Heritage Zeitgeist

First of all, how many good, great or iconic neon signs do you see around Toronto? Can anybody think of one that's better or more iconic than the Sam's sign? Neon is disappearing from this city, so wouldn't it be nice to save a few good examples of this dying art form? LEDs do not have the quality of light and colour of neon. They just don't have that special quality that you find in colourful, animated neon signs.

Why was that Sam's sign used in so many Toronto tourism campaigns and why did so many tourists take its picture? There is a very good reason, it screamed TORONTO! We have a city that is quickly starting to look like every other city. We are building the same glass condos, using the same grey spandrel and attracting the same chain stores (Target, Apple, The Gap, Saks Fifth Ave and all that other American corporate crap) I realize many of you guys/gals are eager to have Toronto look like every American city but would it hurt us to maintain the things that make us different?

We have Astral Media giving us street furniture that looks like every other city. We have the city of Toronto changing our distinctive acorn street signs to cheap, generic crap. We plant the same god damned trees, that every other city in North America plants and it seems we use the same standard everything, that most cities use to build their public realm cheaply. Considering how generic everything is becoming, would it not benefit Toronto to preserve every bit of history, nostalgia, art, culture, design and place defining objects, that give this city character? Why do we want to destroy everything that makes us different and unique? I just don't understand why so many people are eager to become just another big, faceless city, full of Olive Gardens and Saks Fifth Avenues.

What great city is so quick to trash the things that make it unique and give it charecter? It just makes no sense at all to want to trash the iconic Sam's sign.

Last but not least, that store and Sam himself, were instrumental in shaping Canada's music scene. I think of that sign as a tribute to the man himself. If you don't know what he did for Canadian artists and music, look it up and discover for yourself. Many Canadian musicians tell stories about Sniderman helping promote their records and careers.

Read the obituary from the Toronto Star
http://www.thestar.com/news/obituar...ord_man_founder_sam_sniderman_dies_at_92.html


Still don't think that sign is worth saving? If not, then what is? If Ryerson thinks spending 250,000 dollars on that sign is the end of the world, maybe they should have thought about that BEFORE signing an agreement with the city and shame on us, if we let them just ignore that agreement.


Sometimes this city seems to have no soul.
 
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^^ It certainly doesn't belong in a garbage dump, which is where Ryerson seems to want to conveniently put it. Oh, and how do you know a Toronto Museum will ever get built? Do you really think Rob Ford is going to put multi-millions of dollars into a new museum? (Or the feds and province, for that matter) If that sign is not restored by Ryerson now, it will quickly deteriorate and quietly be dumped in a landfill, I'm pretty sure of that. Don't you know how things work around these parts?
 
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I'm pleased to be proven wrong by my post above. More importantly, the passionate arguments for saving Sam's signs, the store, and Sam Sniderman himself is Urban Toronto at it's best. This also brought back a memory. I was perhaps 12 or 13, was in Sam's and came across a 45 for a song that I was nuts about after seeing the film, "To Sir, With Love" by Lulu. Many years later I found the entire soundtrack LP from the same film in Sam's soundtrack bin. I can't tell you the level of excitement I felt finding that illusive 45 and then the soundtrack LP (which I never even knew existed until I accidentally came across it). I, like many above had many more great "finds" like that in Sam's over the years, followed with great excitement.
"If you can't find something just ask Sam's staff, if you can find Sam's staff!"
I wonder what happened to the thousands of artist's signatures all over the walls of the store and all the autographed photos, many with Sam?
 
A Toronto Museum is a perfect vehicle for wealthy benefactors in this city. I'm sure Toronto's luminaries would welcome the association. In the absence of government funding, that's how it should be done. It's how it's done in NYC and San Fran, to name just two great American cities. The sign belongs in a museum.
 
dt_toronto_geek said:
"If you can't find something just ask Sam's staff, if you can find Sam's staff!"
I wonder what happened to the thousands of artist's signatures all over the walls of the store and all the autographed photos, many with Sam?
Click to expand...

Just about everything inside the store including the autographed pictures was sold to the highest bidder as seen in the below video. As Sam's grandson Zach said at the time it was the Sniderman family's way of "giving back to the community by sharing a part of the store with the public".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06VYLUlSlsg

As for what should happen with the sign I think a good idea would be to mount it on the side of Dundas Sq. There is a lot of blank wall on the west, east, and north walls. It would help to animate the area.

I am opposed however to public funding of such a project. I don't think it is appropriate for a University that receives most of its funding from government sources and tuition from cash-strapped students to be spending large sums of money to preserve the legacy of a wealthy businessman. I think the funding should come from private sources. Perhaps the Sniderman's could kick in some money. They must of made a killing selling the land to Ryerson. Perhaps some of the "CANCON (Canadian content) Millionaires" whose records were sold in SAM's store's could pitch in. Most of them would never have had a career in music if Sam hadn't pushed for Canadian content regulations. He made most of them rich! I don't think a dime of public money should go into this.
 
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Peepers said:
Just about everything inside the store including the autographed pictures was sold to the highest bidder as seen in the below video. As Sam's grandson Zach said at the time it was the Sniderman family's way of "giving back to the community by sharing a part of the store with the public".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06VYLUlSlsg
Click to expand...

That's terrific, thanks for that Peepers! I think Sam really would have wanted his customers to have that memorabilia, they dispersed with it all in a smart way given we have no Canadian Music Museum.
Sam really loved his Yonge Street store, he could almost always be found slugging boxes, restocking, hanging out talking to people and towards the end of the store basically getting in the way, but he loved to be there.
 
Re: Ryerson and the Sam's sign(s), people on a FB page have been bitching about the sign and Kristyn Wong Tam for days so she stepped in a couple of hours ago with this post:

Kristyn Wong-Tam I was out of town for five days. Ryerson and Heritage Preservation Services staff have been in discussions about this matter for over two years. No one is abdicating their responsibilities and everyone is at the table, including architects, heritage consultants, urban designers and planners. To insinuate that Ryerson or the city staff do not care about heritage is unfounded and unfair to them, especially given the time, care and honest efforts they have already put into these discussions. There is no actual heritage policy for "neon signs" and definitely no policy without a physical building, especially ones that maybe leaking mercury. Whether the signs are structurally sound is an obstacle that can most likely be resolved with an engineered solution. The environmental hazard is more complicated to remediate. I'm informed that one of the main issues with LED replication is that it becomes faux-heritage, similar to replacing actual Victorian properties with fake Victorian replicas. It's not generally recommended by heritage experts. I had originally suggested this for the signs in 2011 and it was rejected by staff. Nevertheless, our discussions about Sam Sniderman and his contributions to Canadian commercial music industry will continue beyond the staff report and that will be evident in the amendment that I intend to move at Toronto East York Community Council next week. Everyone is welcome to write to me personally at councillor_wongtam@toronto.ca to share their views and offer suggestions.
 
I think Dundas Square is a great place for it. Although I loathe that 'media tower' it wouldn't be a bad spot for it. Come to think of it - I'd rather see that tower (and Dundas Square) as a partial resurrected neon and sign musem of Toronto. That'd be interesting.
 
Reading in between the lines, Wong-Tam seems aligned with the Ryerson proposal. For me personally, while I understand that the sign would look out of place on the Snohetta building, 3 things are important and must be considered:

1 - Protecting the historical significance of the sign itself.

The sign doesn't need to go back up where it was as long as it's preserved and easily available for public viewing. Ideally, it would be in the immediate vicinity. Hanging it on the wall in the lobby of the Student Learning Centre would be perfect. It wouldn't be lit. Mercury leakage would be considered but it wasn't a danger all these years so I feel that it's a convenient excuse used by Ryerson and inexplicably by the city and the danger has been overemphasized.

2 - Acknowledging the historical significance of the site.

The sidewalk artwork is excellent in of itself but falls short in trying to be the entire package. It honours the site, details its history and the design does a good job of recalling what was once there. It's missing one important feature, perhaps the most imporant of all...

3 - The lights.

There's a reason why so many people gathered to see the signs lit for the final time. The dead signs had little meaning. Their light pattern and the effect it had looking up Yonge St. is where the nostalgia lies. Could a modern interpretation be found to replicate the spinning disks? Could it fit on the Snohetta building? Absolutely! Embedding a series of LEDs on the glass skin of the Student Learning Centre that could be coordinated into light art would honour the light show that we expected on this part of Yonge. They don't have to be spinning disks, they could be much more flexible.
Think hundreds of tiny LEDs coordinating colour and intensity to create a moving image. Not necessarily the complexity of the CN Tower and definitely not the same brightness. More like a large collection of flashlights blinking on and off. Ryerson students could work to create rotating light art pieces.

If these 3 items are addressed in good faith by Ryerson, I think that they will have fullfilled their obligation of honouring the site and returning the spirit of the signs to Yonge Street.
 
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I'm sorry, but I can't think of any possible way they could incorporate Sam's-style lighting into the facade of the Student Learning Centre without it looking ridiculous. At this point, that is not a solution.
 
Metroman:

While I am not against the notion of your point 3 - what you have suggested is so far removed from the original signage that it'd better argued as a new piece of public art.

The building as built isn't an appropriate context for the signage - second CN's point, it really should have gone into a Museum of Toronto instead.

AoD
 
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