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Rob Ford's Toronto

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We've all been rightfully critical of Ford dragging his family into his mess. Bringing kids to a city hall sit-in could be viewed similarly by the right. We can be better than that; we don't need to use kids as props.

Perhaps there's some good reasons to bring the kids down there. I mean, it's always great to get young people interested in politics. But perception is everything. The right could turn around and use this as ammunition in their constant attempts to dismiss criticism about the mayor.

Sorry, strongly strongly do not agree. Not even a little bit. I took my child to rallies since he was about 9 years old. Because of his involvement in rallies and the fact he was exposed to so many caring and kind people at these rallies he grew up to be a really open minded, kind and caring man. I will never ever regret that. Through his exposure to these issues he grew to be a tolerant, non-racist kid. There is absolutely nothing wrong with instilling a sense of community, civic duty and tolerance in your kids.

Also, Rob Ford is setting a horrible horrible example for kids. These kids need to know that doing everything wrong and going against all that is good, you will not end up as mayor. They need to know that having money, connections and privilege does not mean you are a good person.
 
Can everyone just leave the kids out of this?

The Fords brought kids into it, and they brought families into it, as well as promoting that Rob is the best father/role model for children.

To risk sounding like Whitney Houston, children are the future, they will develop their own personalities based on what we teach them. And if we ingore their questions and commentatry then we become the some of our paradigms, and evoltionary dead ends.

Doug at city hall addressing the protest "ladies":

BenSpurr 11:26am via TweetDeck
Protester says mayor is a bad role model. "I know, I know," says Doug. "But there are thousands that love him."

And then this whopper:

KatieSimpson24 11:29am via Twitter for iPhone
Cllr Doug Ford says reporters don't have the moral authority to question the Mayor's whereabouts/schedule.

Just more Dougie beating his breast with the Bible... welcome to the "Moral Majority".
 
...knowing what I do now, it actually seems inevitable that something like this would have happened sooner or later.

...Any nut, any self-serving liar, any political extremist, any snake oil salesman or grifter, or just plain old vindictive crank who can get their talons on sufficient funds to run for office will feel empowered to do so. This could just be the beginning.

Amen man. It's scary as all fuck.
 
Sorry, strongly strongly do not agree. Not even a little bit. I took my child to rallies since he was about 9 years old. Because of his involvement in rallies and the fact he was exposed to so many caring and kind people at these rallies he grew up to be a really open minded, kind and caring man. I will never ever regret that. Through his exposure to these issues he grew to be a tolerant, non-racist kid. There is absolutely nothing wrong with instilling a sense of community, civic duty and tolerance in your kids.

Also, Rob Ford is setting a horrible horrible example for kids. These kids need to know that doing everything wrong and going against all that is good, you will not end up as mayor. They need to know that having money, connections and privilege does not mean you are a good person.

There are surely ways to achieve this without the damaging "optics". Bring your child to city hall, teach him or her about city hall processes, answer any questions they may have about Rob Ford, encourage them to write emails and talk with members of council, have them sit in on council meetings. None of these things have the same appearance problems as a sit in with their parents. If the kid was old enough, then even encourage them to take part in protests and sit ins by themselves.


Normally, I'm less concerned about this sort of thing, but Ford and his team have been taking advantage of every "optics" mistakes the left have made and turned them against us. (The death threat the other day, for example)


Rob Ford isn't nearly of an embarasment to our city than his support numbers are.
 
I'm a big believer in principle but sometimes it conflicts with results. If Doug goes on the air and complains about the left using kids as props and his brother's support raises another 5%, is principle worth it? Yes, Doug would be a hypocrite and those who threw their support behind Rob would be wrong to do so. But in the end we're left taking a step backwards in getting this guy out of office.

Yes, the principal is worth it. The kids there have legitimate questions, and legitimate concerns. They aren't being used as props; they are citizens-in-training.

Additionally, the strategy you recommend pre-emptively surrenders the initiative to Doug, based on what he might do, and how people might react. I'm not willing to do that.
 
I guess Doug is forgetting in his stupid attack on the press (not having the "moral authority" to question the mayor's whereabouts - huh?) that we (as taxpayers!) deserve to know what the mayor is doing on our dime (to use Ford Nation phrasing). Accountability and transparency! So, is he "taking personal time" (i.e. sleeping in) or out watching a pot hole get filled in?
 
So Ford just walked out of another presser because he didn't like the questions.

He has two response sets in his tool kit:
1) Lie
2) Run

Each of these he is 'forced into' by the media asking 'morally' inappropriate questions.

How long can this go on for, Toronto? How long can this loser stay on and drag us down?
 
There are surely ways to achieve this without the damaging "optics". Bring your child to city hall, teach him or her about city hall processes, answer any questions they may have about Rob Ford, encourage them to write emails and talk with members of council, have them sit in on council meetings. None of these things have the same appearance problems as a sit in with their parents. If the kid was old enough, then even encourage them to take part in protests and sit ins by themselves.


Normally, I'm less concerned about this sort of thing, but Ford and his team have been taking advantage of every "optics" mistakes the left have made and turned them against us. (The death threat the other day, for example)


Rob Ford isn't nearly of an embarassment to our city than his support numbers are.
We need more civic engagement, not less. Higher numbers of protestors not fewer. If the Fords are able to use the optic mistakes then that just means we need to step up the game, by getting more people out.
 
We need more civic engagement, not less. Higher numbers of protestors not fewer. If the Fords are able to use the optic mistakes then that just means we need to step up the game, by getting more people out.

Why not try to be more aware of optics so those people who we're getting out are more successful in getting their message out?
 
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Just in...

More search warrants surface in Mayor Rob Ford probe

Toronto police investigators have obtained seven new search warrants in relation to the Project Brazen 2 investigation of Mayor Rob Ford and others.

The new warrants, which were granted by a provincial court judge between October 2013 and January 2014, include authorizations for police to obtain call records from Bell, Rogers, Telus and Wind Mobile.

The Star does not know what police sought or are seeking with these warrants, but they were included on a chronological list of judicial authorizations handed over Tuesday in Superior Court where the Star and other media is seeking public access to the documents. They could relate to call records for Ford’s cell phones or others targeted by the investigation.

Justice Ian Nordheimer agreed to lift the sealing orders on the warrants, including one granted on Nov. 29 and another granted on Jan. 14 to obtain telephone records from Rogers. But the unsealed documents will be made available only to provincial and federal crown attorneys for the time being so that they can determine whether redactions are necessary before the materials are released publicly.

Lawyers for the Star and other media will appear again before Justice Nordheimer on March 5 to make arguments for the public release of the search warrants.

“We had a productive meeting with the provincial and federal crowns and they are going to review the materials between now and March 5 and we’re hopeful we’re working toward an early resolution of these issues,” said Ryder Gilliland, a lawyer representing the Star.

The Star and other media are also seeking access to three additional search warrants referenced in a 500-page request made last October by police to search the home of Alexander “Sandro” Lisi, the mayor’s friend and occasional driver, who the Star has reported told people he had supplied drugs to Ford. Those search warrant applications targeted Lisi’s vehicles and his cellphone records, among other things.

Lisi is currently facing drug charges and an extortion charge related to attempts to obtain the now infamous “crack video” featuring Ford.

The seven new search warrants disclosed by the crown Tuesday are included on a list of all judicial authorizations granted to police dating back to June 2013. The warrants — all subject to sealing orders — show that the investigation of the mayor and several of his associates has continued in earnest since police filed their application to search Lisi’s home last October.

On Oct. 9, just seven days after police applied to search Lisi’s home, a judge granted a request to search Lisi’s iPhone.

On Oct. 21, police obtained an assistance order for Apple Inc.

More than a month later, on Nov. 29, police obtained a search warrant for “7 cell phones and 1 computer from Traveller.” Project Traveller was a massive year-long guns-and-gangs operation in northern Etobicoke.

It was in early 2013 when detectives working on Project Traveller heard wiretap conversations between alleged gangsters talking about the mayor smoking drugs and appearing in a video in which Ford appears to be smoking crack cocaine. Project Brazen 2, the probe of the mayor and several of his associates, is a spinoff of Project Traveller.

The final four warrants on the list disclosed Tuesday are for production orders for Bell, Rogers, Telus and Wind.
 
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