Rob Ford's Toronto

[TinyTiny]

I am really surprised at this troll / witch-hunting. I just discovered this forum today and was curious to educate myself on this subject. But I don't see much facts in this discussion. I am giving you numbers and references to papers. And I here just labels and empty words. I was expecting a higher level of intelligence.

If you really do want to educate yourself, a good place to start would be to read the Lisi ITO. And I mean to actually READ the ITO, not just glance over some newspaper stories. All 450+ pages of it. Supplement that reading with some research on the Project Traveler warrants and also look into the history of the Ford children and their associates. That way you won't be surprised when the true extent of Rob Ford's criminality is revealed to you when he is eventually held accountable for his transgressions.

 

[Johnny Au]

There is a problem with linking pages directly: some people set theirs to 20 posts per page, some 40 posts per page, and some 10 posts per page.

It would screw up the system. It is recommended to link the first relevant post.

 

[jml]

Hey, Kir, remember a couple of pages back when you claimed that Ford saying he was trying to get a Canadian flag put "back up" was a media conspiracy?

It's documented on video at about 50 seconds in here: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...on-rainbow-flag-at-city-hall/article16803544/

 

[jml]

Well, finally, some hope of intelligence on this forum I assume you are referring to this document. I can't promise I have time to read all 450 pages, but that's a good starting point. And other references are helpful as well. Thank you.

http://www.680news.com/2013/10/31/read-documents-in-case-of-fords-friend-sandro-lisi/

I would also suggest seeking out some wider context for the ITO... such as the fact that a number of the times Ford met with Lisi, he was scheduled to be having "constituency meetings" while he was actually drinking with a drug dealer and violent offender in the park. Also worth considering why so many phone calls were exchanged between Ford's director of logistics, David Price, and Sandro Lisi shortly after the crack video story broke while acts of violence were being committed in the Dixon community.

 

[OSS 117]

There is a problem with linking pages directly: some people set theirs to 20 posts per page, some 40 posts per page, and some 10 posts per page.

It would screw up the system. It is recommended to link the first relevant post.

Good point, thanks. Although I don't know why I'm doing this kid's work for him in the first place. After some of the things he's said, he can look up his own damn posts.

 

[OSS 117]

Thank you. Could you just confirm that I've got the right page - it opened on:

"
2013-May-16, 20:58
Chouster

Breaking: Rob Ford doing crack cocaine.

http://gawker.com/for-sale-a-video-o...-cra-507736569
"

That's as good a place to start as any, isn't it?

 

[TinyTiny]

You are right, there are less people prepared to vote for him, but it's still a solid 33%:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/1...vote-for-him-in-next-election-new-poll-finds/

How would you explain such a high support for such a "bad person"?

This is a good question, and one that I don't think anyone has the real answer to yet.

It appears that there is a very good chance that Ford has had acts of violence committed on his behalf on more than one occasion and that he himself has committed acts of violence towards his own wife. He has admitted to driving after drinking alcohol. He has admitted (grudgingly) to consuming dangerous drugs (and even then apparently lied about his frequency of use). He has been recorded on video, in public, in states of obvious impairment and intoxication, to the point where any normal citizen would be arrested. He has lied, repeatedly, about, well, almost everything. He has refused to speak with the police. He has had a history of going 'off the grid' for extended periods of time to the point that his own staff had no idea of his whereabouts or activities. He has been photographed, by police, associating repeatedly with his personal drug dealer (Lisi) DURING city hall WORK HOURS. He was photographed repeated exchanging suspicious packages with said drug dealer. It also appears that he let himself be extorted by drug dealers because he could not control his habits, and it also appears that he has been photographed by these dealers using both crack cocaine and heroin.

Why anyone would support a person who has demonstrated a repeated and consistent pattern of such thuglike behavior is beyond me. I suspect ultimately it has more to do with people support his ideology than directly supporting him. He also had a long history of favorable personal interaction with his constituency within his ward when he was councilor, although that sort of personal attention seems to be eroding significantly the longer he has been in office.

 

[soimelk]

You are right, there are less people prepared to vote for him, but it's still a solid 33%:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/1...vote-for-him-in-next-election-new-poll-finds/

How would you explain such a high support for such a "bad person"?

So many choices to choose from.

Low literacy rates

A growing tendency towards belief in media conspiracy theories as a means to compensate for a lack of understanding of basic political, economic or social concepts

Not all people make good decisions even when evidence is reliable and plentiful

Pride

Low standards for elected officials that mirror their own low personal ethical standards.

The fallacy that unionized workers are the cause of the many economic hardships facing society, while wealthy elites like the Fords avoid facing any responsibility for their role in the growing gap between haves and have nots.

 

[OSS 117]

I am starting to think that all these posts and questions are intended to be a distraction from other topics. If he's not just being disingenuous, the answers to all Kir's questions could be had by just going back and reading the damn thread.

 

[soimelk]

Well, I guess I'd question the "reliable and plentiful evidence", as this is actually the reason I went to this forum. The articles in newspapers are very superficial and mostly (the one I saw at least) refer to some unproven claims and vague hints. Except substance abuse I didn't see too much negative facts.

On the other hand, Wikipedia provides plenty of positive information, as I quoted in my original post.

I would say your willingness (or ability) to look at the mountain of credible evidence that exposes Ford as a corrupt leader is what is superficial here.

 

[soimelk]

I am starting to think that all these posts and questions are intended to be a distraction from other topics. If he's not just being disingenuous, the answers to all Kir's questions could be had by just going back and reading the damn thread.

You make a good point. Will disengage.

 

[jml]

There's a sizable enough contingent of the population that thinks all Ford did was smoke crack one time and get drunk on weekends, so I'm willing to give this poster the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

[OSS 117]

Sorry if I created such impression, I assure you this is my first day on this forum, I have no affiliation with Rob Ford and I was just searching for some info on the topic. I am willing to meet in person if this helps to address your concerns. Feel free to contact me by e-mail or private message.

By the way, I find it ironic that soimelk just referred in his post to conspiracy theories, while people on this forum seems to be obsessed with concern that Rob Ford's minions are searching Toronto forums to disrupt any negative conversations about him

With regards to finding questions in this thread, as any sane individual, I was looking for a shorter way to obtain the information then sifting through 3,000 pages of discussions. I came to this forum with open mind and shared whatever my knowledge was on this topic. And the first reaction of this forum was name-calling and conspiracy theories. You should take it easy guys

It's not fair to try save yourself time by wasting other people's. I wouldn't go on a NASA website and expect to have basic astronomy explained to me. Do the research AND THEN ask any questions if you have them.

 

[salsa]

I wish I had joined this forum before the crack scandal. There's so much interesting stuff posted at that time that I'm tempted to go back and read it all, if only I had the time for it.

 

[soimelk]

Sorry if I created such impression, I assure you this is my first day on this forum, I have no affiliation with Rob Ford and I was just searching for some info on the topic. I am willing to meet in person if this helps to address your concerns. Feel free to contact me by e-mail or private message.

By the way, I find it ironic that soimelk just referred in his post to conspiracy theories, while people on this forum seems to be obsessed with concern that Rob Ford's minions are searching Toronto forums to disrupt any negative conversations about him

With regards to finding questions in this thread, as any sane individual, I was looking for a shorter way to obtain the information then sifting through 3,000 pages of discussions. I came to this forum with open mind and shared whatever my knowledge was on this topic. And the first reaction of this forum was name-calling and conspiracy theories. You should take it easy guys

You could read the ITO, a primary document made by sworn officers that shows ford as much worse than a party boy with impulse problems. But you don't seem interested in that.

You point out the conspiracy double standard. If the Ford camp didn't have a known history for using dirty tricks via social media platforms, you might have a point. But they do have such a history, so I'd call those discussions informed speculation.

If you're going to call all of the news articles critical of ford superficial without backing up that observation, don't be surprised you're viewed as a troll.