Rob Ford's Toronto

[the lemur]

Do you have kids at school? I do -- Grades 10 & 7. Critical thinking is absolutely one of the things they're taught, especially things like how to analyse advertising and rhetorical arguments.

That's true. The trouble lies with adults who either never learned those skills, or learned them but became lazy, or knowingly ignore them in order to happily accept easy soundbites meant to short-circuit rational discourse: 'If we allow A, it'll lead to Z! It's a slippery slope!' ... 'War on the car!'

You only have to look at the comment section of any online article to see how readily people indulge in logical fallacies without even recognizing them. They're all there: appeal to emotion, special pleading, post hoc ergo propter hoc and the one the user helpfully names while using it, the aforementioned slippery slope.

However, I always tell them that when they're listening to advertising or political polemics or in fact anyone trying to convince them of anything, they should always assume that the opposite of what they're saying is closest to the truth. People always stress their weakest points because that's what they need to convince you of.

That's why, for example, Mercedes always stress how affordable they are and Hyundai tell you they're luxury cars. We already know that Mercedes are good quality and Hyundai are cheap, so they don't bother saying that, but try to shift perceptions which they are uncomfortable with (i.e. that Mercedes are expensive and Hyundai are cheaply made).
.

Hmm ... that's kind of a grey area. I don't really see Mercedes stressing affordability, at least not as their core message all the time. They still emphasize the luxury/quality angle, but affordability comes into play once in a while when they want to play against type: this model is 'surprisingly' affordable (because it's smaller than the others, but it's still expensive compared to similarly sized cars from other makers), that model is more affordable than before, because of time-limited promotions ('now is your best time to get into a new E-class ...'), etc.

Hyundai started off advertising itself as cheap above everything else, because they had no real history to draw on and they counted on the budget-minded consumer to go for an apparent bargain as long as the car seemed decent and wasn't actually priced too low. They built on that by offering warranty coverage (figuring that even if the car was terrible, they could keep the consumer loyal as long as the problems were fixed by Hyundai at no cost to the consumer). Now their angle is that they've always been affordable/reasonably priced but you get a measure of luxury and quality into the bargain, which appears to be greater value for money.

What Rob Ford mostly engages in is sophistry. He doesn't really care about being honest (as opposed to appearing honest) or about what the truth is, as long as he can get people who don't ask too many questions to accept his excuses and his attempts to reason his way out of accusations:

He doesn't smoke crack and is not addicted to it ... you're talking about right this very moment, yes? But okay, yes, he did in the PAST. It doesn't count if it's not happening right now. Sorry, let's move on, okay? You didn't ask the right question.

And the crack-smoking was only because of the excessive drinking. The excessive drinking is due to hard work (because he's mayorin' 24/7, even when he appears to be on a drug-and-booze-fuelled bender) and stress brought on by media scrutiny. Rob Ford wouldn't have problems if the media gave him a free pass, even though it was the drinking and drugging and behavioral issues that attracted media attention in the first place.

And even though all of this may make him appear unfit to hold public office, even without most mayoral powers, he's not stepping down, because he has a job to do that some people want to prevent him from doing (boilerplate about gravy, efficiences, respect for taxpayer, etc. goes here) and he really needs to get back to answering phones and showing up in other council members' wards to address banal hands-on problems like potholes, instead of leaving it to 311.

So: blame the drugs on the drinking, the drinking and the drugs on the negative media attention, the negative attention on his feigned workaholism.

Doug Ford, on the other hand, is just flat-out lying most of the time. He has a bunch of things that he wants people to accept as true either because it enables his ideology (à la Goebbels) or because he truly does believe them despite any evidence to the contrary (the old George Costanza 'not a lie if YOU believe it' justification).

 

[requiem]

I was at the Q&A and she did say something about the 2nd video. I can get the exact quote if you want it, but she said something along the lines of "when we report on it, you will see for yourself", intimating that they know what's in it and it will eventually come out.

I was there too. I didn't get the sense they were confirming anything. I don't doubt their sources have told them things and they've heard rumours but it seems they skirted the question a bit when asked about the guns/passed-out Ford rumour.

 

[TOperson]

I think this has a lot to do with immigration and diversity. People are often more willing to empathize with people whom they perceive as being like them in some way, and this is more likely to happen in a relatively homogeneous society, where everyone "belongs." If the society is fractured into multiple cultural groups, or when there are newcomers, it becomes harder for people to view others as equally deserving of their assistance, and easier to rely on stereotypes to explain away poverty and inequality.

Remember Reagan's "welfare queens"? This is why government programs are so controversial in the US, because racist white people view them as subsidizing "lazy" African-Americans and Latinos.

I think this also factors into the Ford's attitude to public transit: it's a subsidy for people who are not like them, and who are not deserving, in their mind. In their worldview, a moral person has a car and drives, and buses are for lazy people who can't afford cars.

As it happens, this woman is the daughter of immigrants and her extended family has people of several different races/ethnicities. Which makes her attitude even odder.

My guess is it's a case of "I've got mine Jack".

 

[TOperson]

All of which means that critical thinking becomes not just a desirable trait, but something that is absolutely imperative.

Or it could be that lots of people's brains aren't suited to it. We did not evolve needing to deal with propaganda, mass advertising, or even needing basic literacy and numeracy. We're dangerously bad at long-term thinking.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Got to love how disgraced politicians resort to the coup d'etat excuse - it's a special brand of egotism:

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/1...ardon-former-prime-minister-after-coup-detat/

AoD

 

[Tewder]

The other day I was talking to a co-worker, a by-no-means stupid person, who said that even though she had benefited from many social programs as a single teen mother, she finds that now that she is getting older she is more conservative and less supportive of her tax dollars going to such programs. ???? (I think there is an empathy deficit at work here too.)

I'm not sure it's a lack of empathy that drives this. She may in fact be an enormously compassionate person. What she may be commenting on here is exasperation with taxation (and government corruption), which can happen over time with life experience.

I don't subscribe to Rob Ford 'gravy train'-type jingoism because it is nothing but blatant populist manipulation... but I hope the Ford circus doesn't undermine the importance of real fiscal accountability and welfare/taxation responsibility on the part of government. That would be his biggest affront to society.

 

[Dubster]

I'm not sure it's a lack of empathy that drives this. She may in fact be an enormously compassionate person. What she may be commenting on here is exasperation with taxation (and government corruption), which can happen over time with life experience.

I don't subscribe to Rob Ford 'gravy train'-type jingoism because it is nothing but blatant populist manipulation... but I hope the Ford circus doesn't undermine the importance of real fiscal accountability and welfare/taxation responsibility on the part of government. That would be his biggest affront to society.

Yes, government distorting market forces through corporate welfare and influence peddling and putting an unfair tax burden on lower income earners is a big issue

 

[newearthling]

I was there too. I didn't get the sense they were confirming anything. I don't doubt their sources have told them things and they've heard rumours but it seems they skirted the question a bit when asked about the guns/passed-out Ford rumour.

I took what said as an affirmation. RD said something like:"when we have that information, we would love to share it with you." Then she kind of sheepishly chuckled, and people laughed too.
If it wasnt true, she would have denied it, or said that they hadnt heard of that rumour.

 

[dforthandbview]

For those that missed the panel discussion with Doolittle and others, you can watch the whole thing here: http://newsana.com/live
5 minutes in and this is already the most awkward panel I've ever seen. The table is too small. They seem like they don't even want to be there. Doolittle is on her phone the whole time. They can't stop drinking water. Too funny.

 

[Tulse]

I'm not sure it's a lack of empathy that drives this. She may in fact be an enormously compassionate person. What she may be commenting on here is exasperation with taxation (and government corruption), which can happen over time with life experience.

It is indeed remarkable how one's principles regarding government provided programs shift as one has enough means not to need them. Perhaps this person's firmly held political beliefs will once again shift as she becomes a senior and begins to receive further government largess.

I personally take a very strong stand against taxation for medicare, until I get sick.

 

[SecretSquirrel]

I took what said as an affirmation. RD said something like:"when we have that information, we would love to share it with you." Then she kind of sheepishly chuckled, and people laughed too.
If it wasnt true, she would have denied it, or said that they hadnt heard of that rumour.

I was also there, and I didn't think it was quite an affirmation. My take was that they had heard rumours/chatter they considered reliable, but that they didn't have anything which met their standard for publication yet.

For sure though, there was a ripple through the room as soon as Doolittle answered, which I interpreted as the audience interpreting Doolittle to mean that the Star believes that there is such a video.

Splitting hairs? Sure, but isn't that what we do here?

 

[newearthling]

For those that missed the panel discussion with Doolittle and others, you can watch the whole thing here: http://newsana.com/live
5 minutes in and this is already the most awkward panel I've ever seen. The table is too small. They seem like they don't even want to be there. Doolittle is on her phone the whole time. They can't stop drinking water. Too funny.

Yes. The sound quality was all over the place too, and they didn't take enough questions. But it was free so what can you expect, I guess. Thanks for the link. I arrived late, so now I can catch up.

 

[SecretSquirrel]

For those that missed the panel discussion with Doolittle and others, you can watch the whole thing here: http://newsana.com/live
5 minutes in and this is already the most awkward panel I've ever seen. The table is too small. They seem like they don't even want to be there. Doolittle is on her phone the whole time. They can't stop drinking water. Too funny.

Heh. It was awkward, for sure; no-one thought to ensure that their mic levels were remotely similar prior to getting up there. Only Cooke and Coyne really looked at home in front of an audience, although I found myself warming to Greg McArthur's steady and relatable way of speaking as the panel went on.

Doolittle is clearly one to watch. Although I found her a bit keen & eager at times, I don't doubt that she has worked hard and had to endure some unpleasant situations to be where she is; she skirted the last question ("Have you had threats against you?") in a way which made me feel that she & Cooke had discussed this beforehand and decided not to expand on specific incidents.

Did we learn much new? No, not really; anyone interested enough to show up would already have known most of what was discussed. On the plus side, Cooke knows exactly what's in the remaining blacked-out portions of the ITO and stated unequivocally that it will be an interesting read!

Was it interesting to watch these personalities interact? Sure it was. I also appreciated Coyne's take on things; although there is plenty I dislike about Coyne (gung ho on the War On Terror etc.) he is worth listening to for an outside-the-Star take on how Fordmageddon unfolded.

 

[requiem]

Yup, they were squeezed in, hard to hear at times, I thought Doolittle tries a little too hard to be quippy and Michael Cooke kept cutting in when that one audience member was asking about "piling on." But worth the price of admission.

Wondering if I should take next Friday off for the next ITO dump, haha.

 

[SecretSquirrel]

Yup, they were squeezed in, hard to hear at times, I thought Doolittle tries a little too hard to be quippy and Michael Cooke kept cutting in when that one audience member was asking about "piling on." But worth the price of admission.

I could hear literal groaning from the back of the room when that one audience member asked the Tolstoy-length non-question about the Somali diaspora in Canada. He spoke for probably three minutes or more to no effect. Just like the panel, I had no idea what his point was when he finally finished.

As soon as the other questioner said "I'm not a Rob Ford supporter, but..." I watched Doolittle & Cooke carefully. Doolittle smiled (a sort of "Oh purr-lease" smile, I think) but Cooke looked to me like a guard dog who has just detected a burglar in the garden at 2am. Given his resume, it's no surprise that he feels strongly about this issue.

The obvious answer is the one they gave, i.e. that the Fords bring it upon themselves. This was well-supplemented by McArthur's excellent point (which others here have already mentioned) that politicians who lie to journalists are in effect throwing down the gauntlet to the fourth estate.