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Rob Ford's Toronto

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JustAnotherGuy said:
I'm not sure that the education system, even at its highest levels, is particularly adept at teaching critical thinking. In other words, it isn't just the ostensibly "uneducated" who lack the capacity to analyze, question, and counter conventional wisdom, even when it is no wisdom at all.
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Do you have kids at school? I do -- Grades 10 & 7. Critical thinking is absolutely one of the things they're taught, especially things like how to analyse advertising and rhetorical arguments.

However, I always tell them that when they're listening to advertising or political polemics or in fact anyone trying to convince them of anything, they should always assume that the opposite of what they're saying is closest to the truth. People always stress their weakest points because that's what they need to convince you of.

That's why, for example, Mercedes always stress how affordable they are and Hyundai tell you they're luxury cars. We already know that Mercedes are good quality and Hyundai are cheap, so they don't bother saying that, but try to shift perceptions which they are uncomfortable with (i.e. that Mercedes are expensive and Hyundai are cheaply made).

In the case of the Fords, that's why we get such ridiculous lies.

-- Ford saying he's not a drug addict
-- Ford saying he's the best father on earth
-- DoFo saying RoFo is the most honest politician
-- DoFo saying RoFo is a social liberal
-- all the stuff about hard work and being there every day

They lie about these things because they know they're not true. It's basically an admission every time they do it.

An honest man never tells you how honest he is. As soon as someone says 'honestly, just believe me', run for your life.
 
thought i'd revisit this bingo card from way back. the black-lined circles are new definite bingo hits, while the white-lined circles are likely on their way.

robfordbingo3.jpg


it's almost entirely full!

note: the lavish spending is the subway, and lost money due to the LRT cancellation; religious craziness is for the "god bless ford nation" stuff and the "come to jesus moment"; and the sex life details are from learning he has more than enough to eat at home; all the rest should be self-explanatory.
 

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One Nut Kruk said:
I used to work with a guy named, Paul Stanley (not the KISS bassist). In an old MSN conversation we had, he spelled, 'magician', like this: majishun (and he was dead serious about that spelling; even when I called him out on it).
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Also don't forget Slade song titles.
 
DTGeek said:
The internet has also allowed (mis)information to spread much more rapidly and with far less filtering. I never would have thought it would turn out this way 10-20 years ago; myself and a lot of people assumed there could only be minor downsides to information being so readily available, but I didn't consider the effects on people who lack the critical thinking skills to sort through it properly.
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If you followed news groups (Usenet) 15-20 years ago (basically, pre www), you would have seen it happening then and could have seen it coming. What we never saw coming was what the Internet would become, and is yet to become.
 
Sweet Mister said:
Do you have kids at school? I do -- Grades 10 & 7. Critical thinking is absolutely one of the things they're taught, especially things like how to analyse advertising and rhetorical arguments.

However, I always tell them that when they're listening to advertising or political polemics or in fact anyone trying to convince them of anything, they should always assume that the opposite of what they're saying is closest to the truth. People always stress their weakest points because that's what they need to convince you of.

That's why, for example, Mercedes always stress how affordable they are and Hyundai tell you they're luxury cars. We already know that Mercedes are good quality and Hyundai are cheap, so they don't bother saying that, but try to shift perceptions which they are uncomfortable with (i.e. that Mercedes are expensive and Hyundai are cheaply made).

In the case of the Fords, that's why we get such ridiculous lies.

-- Ford saying he's not a drug addict
-- Ford saying he's the best father on earth
-- DoFo saying RoFo is the most honest politician
-- DoFo saying RoFo is a social liberal
-- all the stuff about hard work and being there every day

They lie about these things because they know they're not true. It's basically an admission every time they do it.

An honest man never tells you how honest he is. As soon as someone says 'honestly, just believe me', run for your life.
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While well intentioned advice, it also leads to major (unfounded) skepticism regarding the press. The stories about Ford must be lies, global warming is a hoax even though 99% of scientists believe it true, Obama was born in Kenya despite a birth certificate that no expert can prove is forged, etc. etc. This sort of knee-jerk critical thinking might actually be the problem.
 
You're missing my point. I'm talking about rhetoric, not evidence-based arguments. Essentially advertising in one form or another. The rhetoric usually clues you in to what part of the evidence to inspect most closely.
 
Sweet Mister said:
You're missing my point. I'm talking about rhetoric, not evidence-based arguments. Essentially advertising in one form or another. The rhetoric usually clues you in to what part of the evidence to inspect most closely.
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Yes, but some rhetoric, polemics and advertising is grounded in truth. Taking the a priori stance that everything you hear from someone with vested self-interest is automatically not true isn't helpful, particularly as many of these people mix in truths amid all the lies in order to further confuse, deflect and deceive.

In the end, you just need to be as informed as possible, and take nothing for granted. It's hard work, and even the best of us will be duped from time to time. If you think you're somehow always above the fray, chances are you're wrong.
 
TOperson said:
The other day I was talking to a co-worker, a by-no-means stupid person, who said that even though she had benefited from many social programs as a single teen mother, she finds that now that she is getting older she is more conservative and less supportive of her tax dollars going to such programs. ???? (I think there is an empathy deficit at work here too.)
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I think this has a lot to do with immigration and diversity. People are often more willing to empathize with people whom they perceive as being like them in some way, and this is more likely to happen in a relatively homogeneous society, where everyone "belongs." If the society is fractured into multiple cultural groups, or when there are newcomers, it becomes harder for people to view others as equally deserving of their assistance, and easier to rely on stereotypes to explain away poverty and inequality.

Remember Reagan's "welfare queens"? This is why government programs are so controversial in the US, because racist white people view them as subsidizing "lazy" African-Americans and Latinos.

I think this also factors into the Ford's attitude to public transit: it's a subsidy for people who are not like them, and who are not deserving, in their mind. In their worldview, a moral person has a car and drives, and buses are for lazy people who can't afford cars.
 
facepalming_brooklynite said:
I think this also factors into the Ford's attitude to public transit: it's a subsidy for people who are not like them, and who are not deserving, in their mind. In their worldview, a moral person has a car and drives, and buses are for lazy people who can't afford cars.
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Remember the comment about "they" have buses to take "them" to the Woodbine track and slots. I can't find the exact quote from a quick search.
 
requiem said:
Doolittle was referring to video #1. No indication they know or have seen what's in the second video beyond the audience question.
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I was at the Q&A and she did say something about the 2nd video. I can get the exact quote if you want it, but she said something along the lines of "when we report on it, you will see for yourself", intimating that they know what's in it and it will eventually come out.
 
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