Rob Ford's Toronto

[jje1000]

Actually, do recall that the intentional polarization was started by Ford as a rallying cry - you don't drag in someone like Don Cherry and somehow accuse others of being immoderate (in fact, one can argue one of the major faults of Miller was being too moderate and accommodating - to the point of paralysis and mediocrity).

AoD

This is the point I've been trying to make. It's not so much that Ford is unfairly being picked upon entirely by the Star.

It's a mixture:

- Ford set the tone at his inauguration speech- he's the one who chose to divide/deride rather than extend a hand
- He's acted antagonistically against people who disagree with him, often in petty ways- attacking them and attempting to slander and exaggerate their actions
- The Star reports on his every action- occasionally too much
- Ford whines and complains about his supposed persecution- he's offered this avenue through his radio show and sympathetic articles in the Sun/National Post
- He has linked his ouster to a violation of democracy
- His brother is his enabler, and reinforces him in ways he wouldn't do so himself
- Ford attempts to connect with the conservative suburban everyman; Miller did not do this so much and appeared aloof
- Ford always talks about his achievements and pounds them into people's minds whenever he complains
- The above two conservative newspapers and television channels mostly support Ford
- MSM does not question/take apart his statements- hence people believe that he might be right

Look at this article from the Calgary Herald, which basically follows the lines of what CowboyLogic has been saying, taking the viewpoint that what Ford says is true and that he hasn't done anything wrong so far.

Editorial: Harassment of Rob Ford has gone beyond ridiculous
CALGARY HERALD AUGUST 14, 2013

The Rob Ford-haters just keep waving their cellphone cameras in the air, frantically hoping to snap anything and everything the mayor of Toronto does, as they seize on every opportunity to call for his ouster. Waiting democratically to vote in the next election doesn’t appear to be an option for this gang. Their pursuit of Ford no longer borders on the ridiculous — it has not only crossed that line, it has plunged into the abyss of utter absurdity.

The latest supposed gotcha moment, which has set the Ford-haters to gloating, happened at Toronto’s recent Taste of the Danforth festival, where Ford was filmed, allegedly drunk and slurring his words. Except that the videos are so dark, the shots of the mayor so brief as the camera jumps dizzily all over the place, and the snippets of his voice that can be heard are so obscured by crowd noise and other voices that it’s impossible to tell anything. Ford later said he “had a couple of beers” at the festival. He was driven home by someone else.

Last spring, Ford was pilloried for his alleged use of crack cocaine in another video. That video never surfaced, and no incontrovertible evidence was ever brought forward to prove Ford smoked crack, but the flimsy rumour of the video’s existence was enough for his opponents to call for his resignation, or at least for him to seek help for his supposed addiction.

Were a lawyer to present this quality of evidence at a trial, he would be laughed out of the courtroom and his skills as a prosecutor called into grave doubt. Yet, blurred, erratic, dark and noisy amateur videos are thought to be enough to prove serious accusations against Toronto’s mayor.

The Huffington Post likened Ford’s recent behaviour to that of the late Alberta premier Ralph Klein, who was drunk in 2001 when he entered an Edmonton shelter and threw money at some of the homeless people. Klein later sought help for his drinking problem.

The online publication also quotes a political science professor at the University of Toronto who says Ford never gave a “credible explanation” for the crack cocaine video. The video itself was not credible because it was never released, so it is rather strange that Ford is being chastised for his lack of a credible explanation, but the mystery video itself isn’t held to the same demand for credibility.

If unimpeachable proof existed of Ford engaged in some sort of wrongdoing, then he should clearly rethink his future in Toronto civic politics. But nothing like that exists, and even if he did have a few beers at the Taste of the Danforth, he responsibly chose not to drive home.

Ford may be a little rough around the edges, and his politics certainly aren’t popular with everyone, but those aren’t grounds for the over-the-top harassment he’s been subject to. He was democratically elected, and unless and until he behaves in such a way as to leave no doubt about serious problems, he should be left alone to do the job he was elected to do.

http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinio...ord+gone+beyond+ridiculous/8789242/story.html

Ford is the essential populist-politician of the 21st century. It's going to take more than a couple of flushes to dislodge him.

 

[dforthandbview]

Since we're reaching into The Star's archives, here they are recommending Ford for councillor in 2000:

 

[RC8]

Whether you get a massage or even have nightly affairs with prostitutes - possibly gay and fetish prostitutes - is your own personal business. Whether you get drunk at home or even discretely use harder drugs over holidays is also your own personal business.

Driving intoxicated, smoking crack with murderous gang members and firearms traffickers, showing up drunk or high to events, and surrounding yourself with former drug dealers (see Doug and Price as per the Globe and Mail) while acting as mayor and exerting power over the police - that's not your personal business.

In a respectable private sector position, Jack Layton, Adam Giambrone, or Ralph Klein would have all retained their jobs after their scandals. Rob Ford would have been fired and possibly prosecuted.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

RC8:

Driving intoxicated probably won't get you turfed* - see Gordon Campbell in BC.

*So long there were no accidents involved. All bets are off if there is.

AoD

 

[RC8]

Not by itself, but it's not a personal problem, it's a public issue.

It's the hanging out with violent drug dealers and arm traffickers and showing up to events intoxicated that would likely get you demoted (if you are somewhat competent) or kicked out (if you are like Ford).

 

[mrtinfoilsocket]

CowboyLogic. Tewder. Peepers. Anyone else who is making a fool of themselves right now. Repeat after me:

It seems somewhat unfair to include Tewder in that list seeing as he's already conceded he detests Ford and that "smoking crack is worse".

This next part isn't directed at you but more to the forum in general. I think we do sometimes have an obligation to ask ourselves about our own biases and it's particularly important to think about how we'd react to improper behaviour from "our guys". I'm not completely sure the Jack Layton issue is totally irrelevant as some have claimed. Yes, it shouldn't be used in the context of "Layton did this so that makes Ford ok!!" but it seems reasonable to consider how it affected our opinions about his character and whether we held him to the same standard. I was (and am) a very strong Jack Layton supporter but I'll admit honestly that the massage incident shook me somewhat. I'm not completely sure an elected official should survive a proven prostitution scandal - so that causes me some internal conflict that I recognize.

If we don't or can't ask those questions of ourselves we risk becoming the pretzel logic apologists that we all accuse "Ford Nation" of being. I don't want to be those guys.

We should absolutely be arguing vigorously against Ford and what he stands for but we need to be careful not to cross the line into rabid anger whenever anybody tries to present the opposite point of view providing that they do it respectfully and reasonably. I agree there are indeed a lot of "stupid people" that voted for Ford but there are certainly some people with intelligent things to say that also did so... even if I think they're completely wrong.

(I'm saying all this as someone who absolutely despises the Ford brothers and what they've tried to do to my city)

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

mrtinfoilsocket:

I think Layton survived because the case is so one-off, with no ties to anything else (e.g. abuse of power, general pattern of missteps, etc). If it has, I have a feeling the story would have turned out far differently.

AoD

 

[Tulse]

You truly see no analogy here whatsoever?

As I said, no one here has defended Layton's behaviour, but what they have said is that a personal sexual indiscretion is very different from hanging out with murderous drug gang members and showing up to events intoxicated. The one is about one's personal life, and the other impacts one's public work.

Not at all, but explain to me how the ongoing support for Layton despite his indiscretions and lack of character or judgement is any different than the ongoing support for Ford? Either wrong is wrong or it's not, right?

What "ongoing support" of Layton? The guy is dead. Again, show me where anyone has said that his actions in that particular instance weren't wrong.

But to be clear, wrong is not just wrong in the case of public office -- the type of issue matters, as it impacts on how the person can do their job, and whether they will be unduly influenced. The mayor of a city of 3 million hanging out with murderous drug gang members and smoking crack is indeed worse, and thus "more wrong", than a city councillor getting a handjob. The failings are in no way equivalent -- both are wrong, but the one is far more wrong than the other.

 

[typezed]

Maybe it was the mustache, but I always found Layton pompous. Didn't vote for him or his party in the last election. Shake my head at people who think Olivia Chow is the future of Toronto. Think it terrible that the NDP advanced for election the son of their leader over a young dedicated well-connected visible minority female, even though Mike Layton seems to be a conscientious councillour. Think that the idolatry of Layton and the family dynasty aspect reflect poorly on the left.

Still don't see what any of that has to do with Rob Ford or this thread.

The man drove intoxicated. This is particularly an issue because in his political life he is the lead advocate for the continued dominance of the personal automobile and has been openly hostile to alternative modes of transportation.

 

[JWBF]

In what way is going to a rub-and-tug worse than smoking crack? I'm surprised anyone would disagree with me on this.

A lot of the women at illicit massage parlors, particularly Asian women (as there likely would have been in the Shiatsu massage parlor in Chinatown Layton was found in), are sex slaves or victims of human trafficking. Human trafficking is a huge problem with Asian escorts and other immigrants - a lot of these women are poor, destitute immigrants with no resources or support and are essentially forced into the sex trade. These aren't self-employed high-end escorts (who are more likely to be sex workers of their own volition). If anybody even so much as denies this or accuses me of being a social conservative prude, I will link all the statistics here.

For the record, I don't really care about Layton being found in a rub-and-tug, but I'm just saying that its easily worse than smoking crack and was basically brushed aside by the media. Not to mention that he clearly was being tugged off, and the media went along with the whole "smear campaign" angle.

But seriously, have you ever seen the conditions of drug labs and factories?

Anyway, Ford(s) as usual created a media war, just like the war on cars, war on fiscal responsibility, yada, yada, yada... Without a distraction from the accumulated warts... well, let's just use the metaphor of the mayor's new clothes.

When you have a culture that anything is permissible, as long as you keep it secret, you don't have a moral superiority, nor do you really have the right to claim to be a champion of "family values", unless of course you come from the Victorian era.

You sir are presenting a distraction from the revealed truths of the Fords and their cult.

 

[RC8]

Federal, Provincial, and Municipal NDP are very different animals. The provincial NDP, with the exception of a few notable members in downtown Toronto, is not a well-run party.

 

[Marko]

The mayor of a city of 3 million hanging out with murderous drug gang members and smoking crack is indeed worse, and thus "more wrong", than a city councillor getting a handjob. The failings are in no way equivalent -- both are wrong, but the one is far more wrong than the other.

I think what CowboyLogic was trying to say, is that hanging out with murderous drug dealers and smoking crack, is not that far from purchasing sexual services from a woman who may be under the control of murderous human traffickers.

Even today, massage parlors can have trafficked or controlled providers. 20 years ago it was much more clandestine and the woman was much more likely to have been imported and/or forced into the service than today, where people barely raise an eyebrow.

If we don't or can't ask those questions of ourselves we risk becoming the pretzel logic apologists that we all accuse "Ford Nation" of being. I don't want to be those guys.

We should absolutely be arguing vigorously against Ford and what he stands for but we need to be careful not to cross the line into rabid anger whenever anybody tries to present the opposite point of view providing that they do it respectfully and reasonably.

This is another way of saying what I did yesterday. It's one thing to discredit the messenger as people are alluding and that is sometimes the case. It's another thing entirely if the messenger goes to great lengths to discredit themselves, which is also often the case. When they do that, it only provides fuel to their opponents.

 

[typezed]

And this is why Rob Ford is electable. The whole frickin' culture is too attention deficit disordered to hold the guy responsible for anything.

Today "Layton Handjob!" is our version of "Squirrel!"

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

typezed:

That's why attempts at collecting and presenting his missteps in a complete narrative matters - in isolation some of his transgressions can be considered minor - and their pursuance petty and vindictive. Taken as a whole, those transgressions is suggestive of far more serious faults at the personal level that would invalidate one's leadership position in most careers.

Recall the old adage - People will always elect the government they deserve. "The People" clearly did.

AoD

 

[LowPolygon]

I think what CowboyLogic was trying to say, is that hanging out with murderous drug dealers and smoking crack, is not that far from purchasing sexual services from a woman who may be under the control of murderous human traffickers.

NO. The issue is the 7 YEARS of lies from Rob Ford

Even today, massage parlors can have trafficked or controlled providers. 20 years ago it was much more clandestine and the woman was much more likely to have been imported and/or forced into the service than today, where people barely raise an eyebrow.

NO. The issue is the the 7 YEARS of lies from Rob Ford.

This is another way of saying what I did yesterday. It's one thing to discredit the messenger as people are alluding and that is sometimes the case. It's another thing entirely if the messenger goes to great lengths to discredit themselves, which is also often the case. When they do that, it only provides fuel to their opponents.

NO. The issue is the 7 YEARS of lies from Rob Ford.

And, the idea that sane intelligent people are:

STILL making excuses,
STILL trying to draw analogies, false or otherwise,
STILL rationalizing,
STILL pretending that this is somehow normal behaviour,
STILL supporting him,
STILL SAYING THEY WILL VOTE FOR HIM AGAIN!!,

is the single most depressing spectacle i have ever had the misfortune to witness in this city.