Rob Ford's Toronto

[TheTigerMaster]

I don't really understand how the appeals at the OMB works. I didn't even know you could appeal Council decisions. Can anyone say what the chances are of the Taxpayers Coalition getting a victory?

 

[JWBF]

I don't really understand how the appeals at the OMB works. I didn't even know you could appeal Council decisions. Can anyone say what the chances are of the Taxpayers Coalition getting a victory?

Just like any appeal, OMB will review the evidence and other pertinent information, and rule on that.

I don't see anything to promote a reorg. other than 510 people wanting it so, but we will just have to wait and see what evidence is brought forth other than lines redrawn on a map by the feds.

Right now I would give it a 45% chance.

 

[ttk77]

It's one thing for the OMB to be able to overrule council on planning decisions, but another thing entirely for them to be able to unilaterally change how we govern ourselves. While I'll admit that council making this decision for themselves seems to be a bit of a conflict of interest, having an unelected body making that decision is even worse. This kind of decision needs to either go to the next senior level of government or directly to the people in a referendum.

 

[Peepers]

With Rob Ford out west - Doug Ford went on the offensive against Robyn Doolittle during their radio show today.

Listen to part 1 http://www.newstalk1010.com/shows/robford.aspx

Doolittle was in Florida last week where she tried (without success it seems) to dig up dirt on the entire Ford family (including their late father!) . Interesting listening.

 

[JWBF]

With Rob Ford out west - Doug Ford went on the offensive against Robyn Doolittle during their radio show today.

Listen to part 1 http://www.newstalk1010.com/shows/robford.aspx

Doolittle was in Florida last week where she tried (without success it seems) to dig up dirt on the entire Ford family (including their late father!) . Interesting listening.

We only have Dougie's word for that since their was no evidence presented, only his word, and well, that is worth very little, if nother at all.

What I like is Dougie saying Robbie works 18 hours a day to build a business.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Just like any appeal, OMB will review the evidence and other pertinent information, and rule on that.

I don't see anything to promote a reorg. other than 510 people wanting it so, but we will just have to wait and see what evidence is brought forth other than lines redrawn on a map by the feds.

Right now I would give it a 45% chance.

I find it pretty crazy that 500 like minded people could have the ability to overrule council. Seems thoroughly undemocratic.

 

[jje1000]

Just like any appeal, OMB will review the evidence and other pertinent information, and rule on that.

I don't see anything to promote a reorg. other than 510 people wanting it so, but we will just have to wait and see what evidence is brought forth other than lines redrawn on a map by the feds.

Right now I would give it a 45% chance.

45% is still alarmingly high. We essentially have a partisan group trying to jerry-rig our entire governance system (with some fairly flawed evidence of support, I have doubts even those 500 petitioners are as much as they claim), potentially leading to many Mayor Fords down the road.

What would the next steps be if in case the OMB rules in favour of the appeal?

I could potentially see the province stepping in if things turn ugly. Wynne would probably settle things fairly. Hudak? Not so much.

 

[JWBF]

I find it pretty crazy that 500 like minded people could have the ability to overrule council. Seems thoroughly undemocratic.

It wouldn't be them that would over rule the council, not really. The process of petition is quite necessary in the days of lobbies backed by big money/business. It allows governing bodies to notice smaller voices that would be drown out. Just because they can go to the OMB in this instance does not mean the OMB will rule in their favour. One of the tools the OMB can use for an appeal is to call for a referendum.

It all comes down to checks and balances.

45% is still alarmingly high. We essentially have a partisan group trying to jerry-rig our entire governance system (with some fairly flawed evidence of support, I have doubts even those 500 petitioners are as much as they claim), potentially leading to many Mayor Fords down the road.

I put it at 45% due to Ford promoting reduction of council, his supporters and others who agree for other reasons. It's just a guesstimation on my part.

45% is still alarmingly high. We essentially have a partisan group trying to jerry-rig our entire governance system (with some fairly flawed evidence of support, I have doubts even those 500 petitioners are as much as they claim), potentially leading to many Mayor Fords down the road.

What would the next steps be if in case the OMB rules in favour of the appeal?

I could potentially see the province stepping in if things turn ugly. Wynne would probably settle things fairly. Hudak? Not so much.[/QUOTEquote]What would the next steps be if in case the OMB rules in favour of the appeal?

I could potentially see the province stepping in if things turn ugly. Wynne would probably settle things fairly. Hudak? Not so much.

Yep, one action would be to appeal to the province.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

It wouldn't be them that would over rule the council, not really. The process of petition is quite necessary in the days of lobbies backed by big money/business. It allows governing bodies to notice smaller voices that would be drown out. Just because they can go to the OMB in this instance does not mean the OMB will rule in their favour. One of the tools the OMB can use for an appeal is to call for a referendum.

It all comes down to checks and balances.

If I have this correct, several cities were cited in Council on Thursday and two were named. In London the OMB ruled for Council to be reduced, in Ottawa they ruled against the motion (or vice-versa). The majority of the rulings by the OMB were against reductions, I have a bit of comfort that given the size, complexities and growth of Toronto we should probably be okay. But then again, anything Ford touches turns to sh*t!

 

[jje1000]

For anyone new reading this thread, this is why I'm concerned. It's not so much for efficiency and saving money, but rather to reorient the system unfairly in favour of a certain portion of the population.

The petition by the Toronto Taxpayers Coalition was just barely accepted into council. Of the 1041 signatures, only 510 were valid. Most people didn't live at the address they provided and a few (21) didn't even live in Toronto. It's an interesting look at the validity of petition signatures. It's unfortunate council even spent the time debating something that had no hope in hell of passing.

I took the below screen cap of the Toronto Taxpayers Coalition Facebook page. Read the comment from the page/Matthew McGuire at the bottom. Is there any way their challenge to the OMB could be nullified in any way due to blatant bias against any councillor who isn't pro-Ford?

It's fascinating that pro-Ford people complain of a left-wing conspiracy to remove Ford from office any way possible, yet there are right-wing astroturf groups doing what they can to make a weak mayor like Ford more powerful by cutting councillors.

Edit (link): https://www.facebook.com/TorontoTaxpayersCoalition/posts/551217741587001

 

[the lemur]

I've heard that theory but reading Erent's stuff and ejb's, I don't think the former could be behind the latter. It would have to be an extremely convincing imitation of a bilious ex-Eastern bloc ESL troll and I don't think Erent could pull it off.

Wish I had access to the old ejb account's tweets.

 

[JWBF]

If I have this correct, several cities were cited in Council on Thursday and two were named. In London the OMB ruled for Council to be reduced, in Ottawa they ruled against the motion (or vice-versa). The majority of the rulings by the OMB were against reductions, I have a bit of comfort that given the size, complexities and growth of Toronto we should probably be okay. But then again, anything Ford touches turns to sh*t!

That's about the size of it... that's why the push, the current cllr/ward count was structured by the feds based on the last census numbers, and voted against by council in 2012.

For anyone new reading this thread, this is why I'm concerned. It's not so much for efficiency and saving money, but rather to reorient the system unfairly in favour of a certain portion of the population.

The coalition was on the circle jerk, and made the statement that they had always intended on appealing to the OMB. They knew the council would vote the changes down, and of course Dougie made his famous blurb, "You can't expect the turkeys to vote for thanksgiving."

It is just so blatant, the collusion of the Fords and the TPC. As I pointed out before, Robbie has stated such lists of cllrs v cllrs on the circle jerk several times. The Fords say one thing out of one side of their mouths and then another out the other side, and hope no one notices.

 

[freshcutgrass]

If I have this correct, several cities were cited in Council on Thursday and two were named. In London the OMB ruled for Council to be reduced

While it is correct that council was reduced by 4 members, it was not by reducing the number of wards (they actually doubled from 7 to 14), but by eliminating the 4 member Board of Control that was part of Council and elected by city-wide vote. The number of councillors remained the same at 14, with the ward composition changing.

The elimination of the Board of Control was done by Council, not the OMB. The OMB only ruled for the ward composition change and it was based on an argument that smaller wards based on communities of interest would result in more "effective representation" for the electorate.

Not only is there no precedence here for an argument to cut Toronto's wards by half, it's an argument against it.

Average ward size in London is 26,000. The average ward size in Toronto is currently 60,000. Doubling that to 120,000 per councillor sound like more effective representation for the electorate to you? It won't to the OMB either. I'd love to hear the evidence to support such a drastic reorganization.

I hope it all backfires, because ward boundaries do need to change. I see more representation for the "downtown elites", which is where the majority of the population growth has been happening.

 

[dt_toronto_geek]

While it is correct that council was reduced by 4 members, it was not by reducing the number of wards (they actually doubled from 7 to 14), but by eliminating the 4 member Board of Control that was part of Council and elected by city-wide vote. The number of councillors remained the same at 14, with the ward composition changing.

The elimination of the Board of Control was done by Council, not the OMB. The OMB only ruled for the ward composition change and it was based on an argument that smaller wards based on communities of interest would result in more "effective representation" for the electorate.

Not only is there no precedence here for an argument to cut Toronto's wards by half, it's an argument against it.

Average ward size in London is 26,000. The average ward size in Toronto is currently 60,000. Doubling that to 120,000 per councillor sound like more effective representation for the electorate to you? It won't to the OMB either. I'd love to hear the evidence to support such a drastic reorganization.

I hope it all backfires, because ward boundaries do need to change. I see more representation for the "downtown elites", which is where the majority of the population growth has been happening.

"Downtown elites"? Come on now.
Rather than re-draw downtown boundaries right now I think it more appropriate to address that the three downtown Councillors have the right amount of staff given the incredible amount of development within the three Wards. When things slow down staff levels can be adjusted appropriately and perhaps a Ward added & re-drawn if the populations reflects the need. I don't mean to exclude what is happening out of the downtown and what pressures some of those Councillors may be dealing with, it's just that I simply don't know. What I do know is the workload facing Councillors Wong-Tam, Vaughan & McConnell is extraordinary.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Ford makes it to MAD! (And not a bad depiction, considering)

The interesting thing about Ford Nation's diehards is that they're so freaking defensively parochial, they don't seem to notice or acknowledge at all how Ford-as-punchline has gone massively international...

The Ford's possible reaction:

What, Me Worry!​