Rob Ford's Toronto

[FutureBuilder]

FB - That's not true. You were offensive in our tete-a-tete about the Danforth & Logan building. You were banned for a while and I was chastised for engaging with you. Your statement above, therefore, is flat-out Doug Fordian.

I honestly did not know I was banned.

If I was offensive to you, please don't take anything I type in here to heart. It's just a forum. I have a lot of things to worry about in life and the Ford brothers really aren't up there on my list.

 

[voxpopulicosmicum]

Where does Ford shop?

I'm shocked and appalled that "15 Windsor" and "320 Dixon" have not yet been offered as responses.

 

[FutureBuilder]

Please don't try to explain that the city is bankrupt and that there is no money to maintain the city and provide growth. As a Ford supporter, if you want to believe that there's a 30-40% reduction in property tax just waiting to be plucked from the air due to "wasteful" spending, that's fine. Just don't expect others to drink that kool-aid.

I don't support Ford. I think the city deserves a much better mayor. I simply thing a lot of the people "against" him, are as ridiculous as he is.

I have said before, for me "wasteful" spending are the ridiculous salaries and "administrative" costs here. When a police officer is paid better in Toronto than LA or NYC, something is wrong (and policing is how much of the City of Toronto's budget?). When firefighters make more in Toronto than London (UK), something is wrong. We have public sector salaries that do not reflect reality. And it isn't sustainable moving into the future (with an ageing population and creaky infrastructure).

Residential property tax cannot go down. It isn't possible. But commercial property tax is already pretty high. Toronto doesn't have proper revenue tools, and the provincial and federal gov'ts do not contribute enough to compensate for this.

 

[Tulse]

I'm shocked and appalled that "15 Windsor" and "320 Dixon" have not yet been offered as responses.

Well played. I suppose one could also say that Ford should be used to nickel bags...

 

[TOvp]

When a police officer is paid better in Toronto than LA or NYC, something is wrong (and policing is how much of the City of Toronto's budget?). When firefighters make more in Toronto than London (UK), something is wrong.

I read that as something is wrong with LA, NYC, and London not paying their first responders enough. Why focus on the lowest common denominator, the lowest salary? Take a look at turnover rates in those cities.

 

[FutureBuilder]

I read that as something is wrong with LA, NYC, and London not paying their first responders enough. Why focus on the lowest common denominator, the lowest salary? Take a look at turnover rates in those cities.

I take it us as paying wages that are not sustainable. Look at Ontario's deficit. The debt. Canada's federal debt and deficit.

It just is not sustainable.

And I do not consider NYC or LA as the "lowest common denominators". I would take their mayors over mine, any day.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I read that as something is wrong with LA, NYC, and London not paying their first responders enough. Why focus on the lowest common denominator, the lowest salary? Take a look at turnover rates in those cities.

Why? Because for whatever reason, people on the far right seem to view any public servant as useless waste of money. Doesn't matter who they are. Councillors, teacher, police, firefighters, staff at City Hall, garbage collectors, street maintenance etc... If they're paid more than $0 it's a waste of money. I really don't understand the logic. Without these people, all our lives would be pretty shitty. I for one appreciate their work.

 

[CowboyLogic]

you think this typically paranoid, us-vs-them, 'media is out to get Rob', 'friggin rock star' BS constitutes a simple acknowledgement that he had a drink thrown at him?

right.

Right, he was just speaking generally in hypothetical terms about the exact thing that just happened. In no way would anyone infer to whom he was referring.

So, just to get this straight from you guys: if someone is the victim of an assault, they cannot under any circumstances so much as acknowledge or talk about what happened to them until the trial is over?

And if so, can you explain to me where the precedent for this is? Victims make allegations and accusations all the time about criminal matters. For some reason, when its Ford, even a tacit acknowledgement that something happened and that it is bad is grounds for cirticism.

 

[FutureBuilder]

Why? Because for whatever reason, people on the far right seem to view any public servant as useless waste of money. Doesn't matter who they are. Councillors, teacher, police, firefighters, staff at City Hall, garbage collectors, street maintenance etc... If they're paid more than $0 it's a waste of money. I really don't understand the logic. Without these people, all our lives would be pretty shitty. I for one appreciate their work.

It has nothing to do with "far right". It has to do with sustainability.

Public sector workers are paid more than what is justified, especially under current economic circumstances. When something is not sustainable eventually it collapses.

I appreciate the work entrepreneurs do. They are the heart of an economy.

I never said to pay ppl ""$0", that is simply ridiculous. But the current public sector wage bill is absurd. And it's the reason Clement is going to cut 2 weeks (or 4%) of wages from federal civil servants. It has to be done.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I take it us as paying wages that are not sustainable. Look at Ontario's deficit. The debt. Canada's federal debt and deficit.

It just is not sustainable.

And I do not consider NYC or LA as the "lowest common denominators". I would take their mayors over mine, any day.

About the debt: I'm not sure about the provicial level, but at the federal level, Canada hasn't been debtless since a at least the 1960s. I don't think we'll ever see the debt fully erased anytime in the foreseeable future (a few decades). But just like home finances, that's not necessarily something to get in a panic about, as long as our debt level is manageable.


Back to the provincial matters, the gov't claims we'll eliminate the deficit by 2018. Of course, take that with a grain of salt, but to the credit of the Liberals we are on track to meet that goal.

 

[CowboyLogic]

Where is your proof that he was actually assaulted? Do you have a video tape? Can you prove the video tape isn't a hoax?

Aside from that - what we know actually happened is that a drink of some sort flew in the direction of Rob Ford, hit the ground, and got him a bit wet. That the Fords are playing the "He has been assaulted and that is inappropriate" is laughable. I guess the next time I get a bit of beer spilled on me at a sporting event, I'll remember to file charges.

The Fords aren't spinning this as assault - that's the law. Throwing a drink at someone is assault, plain and simple. Everybody knows this. Your Anti-Ford bias has apparently grown to the point where you're actively denying normal laws.

You don't get to have it both ways. You can't deride people who don't believe in the Ford video as utter morons and then use the same logic against Ford when he's assaulted. I know you're attempting to be sarcastic or humorous, but you're using that sarcasm to avoid having to acknowledge that Ford was the victim in this case and that he did nothing wrong.

Granted, I'm willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to Everett until her trial. Doesn't change the fact that Ford never accused or even named Everett...that was the Toronto police and the media.

 

[FutureBuilder]

About the debt: I'm not sure about the provicial level, but at the federal level, Canada hasn't been debtless since a at least the 1960s. I don't think we'll ever see the debt fully erased anytime in the foreseeable future (a few decades). But just like home finances, that's not necessarily something to get in a panic about, as long as our debt level is manageable.


Back to the provincial matters, the gov't claims we'll eliminate the deficit by 2018. Of course, take that with a grain of salt, but to the credit of the Liberals we are on track to meet that goal.

"to the credit of the Liberals"? After all their scandals, and what they've done to the economy I wouldn't give them much credit. And when we get a downgrade from all the rating agencies (and end up paying billions more in debt servicing payments), I'll think even lower of these Liberals.

Of course, what/who are the alternatives?

Hudak has the charisma of a damp rag. And Horwath means well, but would totally bankrupt us.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

"to the credit of the Liberals"? After all their scandals, and what they've done to the economy I wouldn't give them much credit. And when we get a downgrade from all the rating agencies (and end up paying billions more in debt servicing payments), I'll think even lower of these Liberals.

Of course, what/who are the alternatives?

Well we were hit by that massive global recession. I have a hard time blaming any politician, regardless of political ideology for that. They're not magicians.

Anyways, the Liberals are the best of the worst. The "cut cut cut" attitude of the Progressive (whatever) Conservative party, when Ontario needs serious infrastructure investments would have left the province in shambles. And I don't want to imagine what would happen if the NDP were in power during the Recession of 2008.

 

[JWBF]

First of all, being assaulted should never be an acceptable political fall out, particularly in municipal politics. It's a bit disgusting that you would suggest that.

Now, whether or not their is proof of Everett assaulting Rob is up in the air. There certainly were witnesses and the papers have reported Everett apologized for tossing the drink, but just as I expect Ford to be innocent until proven guilty in the crack allegations, I'll give Everett the benefit of the doubt until her trial.

But what does that have to do with anything? Whether Everett assaulted Ford or not, the fact is that Ford did have a drink tossed at him and is currently being criticized for it. When Ford is even criticized for being a victim of assault, then there's nothing he could do that he wouldn't be criticized for. He didn't comment on the case or name names or do anything questionable; he simply acknowledged he had a drink thrown at him. Whoop de doo.

Who had a drink tossed at them? Who was assaulted? From your flip flop it does not appear that you even know what you think you know. Since the story was and is in the media he does not have to ID the woman in question, it is public record.

I am sorry, but the Ford that cries wolf does not have any credibility to me. The Fords have both lied outright to create fantasy and propaganda to fuel the Ford Cult. And later on today we shall see if Robbie has to contend with another of his past transgressions.

The only victim in these matters is the truth.

 

[FutureBuilder]

Well we were hit by that massive global recession. I have a hard time blaming any politician, regardless of political ideology for that. They're not magicians.

Anyways, the Liberals are the best of the worst. The "cut cut cut" attitude of the Progressive (whatever) Conservative party, when Ontario needs serious infrastructure investments would have left the province in shambles. And I don't want to imagine what would happen if the NDP were in power during the Recession of 2008.

I see what you're saying, but McGuinty could have done much much better. I expected more from him. There were just so many scandals and so much wasted money.

There is nothing "progressive" about the Conservatives. And they "cut cut cut" yet leave deficits behind.

And the NDP are in their own little world.