Rob Ford - Why the Supervillian?

[Filip]

Various polls have said various things - Miller wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of winning the next elections if he were running. Barbara Hall was the frontrunner in 2003, in all polls - guess that doesn't mean anything, right?

I am talking about many pet projects Miller undertook, especially in his second term - without the consultation of the citizens of the city his job is to serve. A sensibly cheap ($10+ billion transit plan) is shoved down the throats of Torontonians and the majority don't want it. Sounds like a dictatorship, no? In many cities I've lived in, such massive capital investments are sent to a city-wide referendum. Most Torontonians would probably vote it down because they know what the city needs, and it's not streetcars. Miller has insisted on Transit City being a cheap alternative that would suddenly cause suburban arterials to magically transform into European streets with trams zooming by and midrise architecture lining both sides, complete with coffee shop, indie bookstores and hipsters. Listening to his interviews about subway expansion it sounds like he's fundamentally against them, because cost can't be an issue considering what Transit City is set to cost us, the taxpayers. Subways are apparently evil, and cause streets to lose all streetlife and pop up condos everywhere. Someone should let Bloor and Yonge know, I don't think they've received the memo.

Instead of relying on the due diligence former, more visionary, Toronto councils, Metro councils and TTC planners have given us over the past 40 years, he goes ahead and creates an entirely new transit plan that benefits no one. A streetcar is a streetcar, whether it runs in tunnels, on bridges, on the streets, in its private ROW... Torontonians know streetcars are slow and unreliable, just because this is called LRT - it's not going to fool anyone - people will continue commuting the way they used to. Also the fact that the TTC fabricated ridership projections for Eglinton should be a legal case and a major scandal. You don't go from ~40 000 ppdh to 5000 unless Toronto gets hit by an asteroid. I hope the current candidates research this, and the media should definitely jump in.

 

[Riverdale Rink Rat]

In many cities I've lived in, such massive capital investments are sent to a city-wide referendum.

Where have you lived where transit is sent to a referendum?

BTW -- the reason Hall lost was due, in large part, because she was a poor campaigner and got smoked by a good campaigner in Miller. If Miller was running, he'd run a good campaign. I'd say those polls are apples and oranges.

Quite frankly, I think that subways are off the table due to the antics/politics of Ford et al. as the much shorter subway lines we could hope to afford wouldn't be tunneled out to Etobicoke. Other than the DRL, a Bay line maybe, where would you put a subway in the new Metro Toronto that would do some good? So, if you're against Miller (on whose council Ford has sat for the entire 7 years, albeit mostly as the Loyal Opposition) and for subways, you really can't vote for Ford (unless you're looking for a subway to Rexdale.)

The biggest reason we don't get subways in this town is because the last time we had an insane, right-of-centre mayor, he built a subway line from his house to the square named after himself so he could go watch Showboat.

 

[GraphicMatt]

Ford's delayed the announcement of his transit plan a couple of times now. I don't think he's found anyone who can make his "Lower taxes + Air Rights = SUBWAYS EVERYWHERE" math add up.

 

[js97]

On the other hand, I have no fear of Rob Ford being elected. I think it's amusing that he's still on the ballot, and I'll be surprised if he even finishes second.

spoken like a true union head...

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but he's very real, rightly or wrongly, Torontonians are fed up with this administration.

it's interesting that people actually think David Miller would win.

If Miller was running, I bet half of Smitherman and Rossi supporters would go to Ford.

Polarize the electorate and you'll see how sick and tired this city is of the whole Union Puppet

 

[nfitz]

I am talking about many pet projects Miller undertook, especially in his second term - without the consultation of the citizens of the city his job is to serve. A sensibly cheap ($10+ billion transit plan) is shoved down the throats of Torontonians and the majority don't want it. Sounds like a dictatorship, no?

Sounds nothing like a dictatorship. Miller campaigned in the last election on expanding LRT rather than spending money on subway. Pitfield campaigned on subway expansion.

All Transit City is, is Miller carrying out what he promised to do ... before getting 57% of the vote.

I'm baffled here ... the city voted for LRT and the mayor and council is implementing it.

How is this a dictatorship by any defnition of the word?

 

[nfitz]

spoken like a true union head...

Me? I'm generally anti-union or neutral. Never belonged to one. And I think their time has past.

I'm not sure if you've been paying attention, but he's very real, rightly or wrongly, Torontonians are fed up with this administration.

I really don't notice that. Apart from a few extreme right-wing folk on this forum, I've heard very few say anything positive about Ford in the real world. What I have heard however, is a few people who I didn't think had a political bone in their body rant about Ford. With the campaign finally kicking off this week, I can't imagne why anyone thinks he woudl come anywhere close to winning.

it's interesting that people actually think David Miller would win.

That's what the polls indicated. Given that low quality of the opposition, it seems reasonable. Ford certainly makes the other 4 look good. But I doubt any of them really could compete head-to-head against Miller.

If Miller was running, I bet half of Smitherman and Rossi supporters would go to Ford.

I really think you underestimate what racism, bigotry, wife-beating, drug-taking, bribery, election fraud, drunk-driving, child abuse, and lying does to the opinions of the average Torontonian.

Polarize the electorate and you'll see how sick and tired this city is of the whole Union Puppet

You say that ... yet Miller didn't seem to have many against him until he turned around last summer and fought the union during the garbage strike, instead of simply caving to their demands. Surely Miller's big problem is that he fought the union, instead of settling without a strike.

At the same time, polls suggest that most Torontonians want TTC made an essential service, thus requiring the city to arbirtate with the union rather than comign to a settlment. That seems pro-union to me.

 

[js97]

Me? I'm generally anti-union or neutral. Never belonged to one. And I think their time has past.

I really don't notice that. Apart from a few extreme right-wing folk on this forum, I've heard very few say anything positive about Ford in the real world. What I have heard however, is a few people who I didn't think had a political bone in their body rant about Ford. With the campaign finally kicking off this week, I can't imagne why anyone thinks he woudl come anywhere close to winning.

That's what the polls indicated. Given that low quality of the opposition, it seems reasonable. Ford certainly makes the other 4 look good. But I doubt any of them really could compete head-to-head against Miller.

I really think you underestimate what racism, bigotry, wife-beating, drug-taking, bribery, election fraud, drunk-driving, child abuse, and lying does to the opinions of the average Torontonian.

You say that ... yet Miller didn't seem to have many against him until he turned around last summer and fought the union during the garbage strike, instead of simply caving to their demands. Surely Miller's big problem is that he fought the union, instead of settling without a strike.

At the same time, polls suggest that most Torontonians want TTC made an essential service, thus requiring the city to arbirtate with the union rather than comign to a settlment. That seems pro-union to me.

Can i jsut say that is a bit out of touch with reality. The garbage strike of 2009 was the last straw that broke the camel's back. Torontonians are generally not that political engaged or indifferent, until they are finally fed up with an issue/individual.

Most people that are Ford Supporters are aware of his antics, they are willing to turn a blind eye.
Great article in the globe that highlight the variety of backers.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...is-why-im-voting-for-rob-ford/article1695994/


I'm not a Rob supporter but it's the out of touch far left/Millerrites that is fueling FORD with many centerists supporters.

These continuous politican labels like 'progerssive', 'city building' all equate to this social 'elitist' attitude (
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2010/08/27/15166091.html)
that turn the average non-annex living resident fuming. These are your fellow citizens that live in middle class homes in 'middle Toronto' and mostly vote liberal at the provincial/federal level.

 

[nfitz]

Can i jsut say that is a bit out of touch with reality. The garbage strike of 2009 was the last straw that broke the camel's back.

Hang on. You can't both say that the garbage strike was the straw that broke the camel's back; and that Torontonians are upset about him being pro-union. The only reason we had the garbage strike was because he stood his ground, and wouldn't budge to the union.

Most people that are Ford Supporters are aware of his antics, they are willing to turn a blind eye.
Great article in the globe that highlight the variety of backers.

I am just not willing to accept that the plurality of Torontonians are bigoted and racist enough to knowingly vote for someone like this. I don't even think that a plurallity are willing to vote for someone with his extensive criminal and ethical background. Hardcore Ford supporters perhaps would put up with it, and he'll likely win over the Bob Smith and Don Andrews supporters ... but people who answer a phone call, are rattled off a list of politicians they have never heard of, and simply say the name of the only politician they recognize who says he will cut at City Hall?

Ford is the benefit of the same kind of polling that gave Hall over 40% of decided voters in early polls for the 2003 election. However by October she was polling 23% (with the front-runner Miller polling 29%) and by election day she got under 10%.

I'm not a Rob supporter but it's the out of touch far left/Millerrites that is fueling FORD with many centerists supporters.

Umm ... you know I'm centrist, right? I've even supported the Tories in the past ... though not in their current ultra-right wing form ... which seems to appear whenever the leader has a 2-syllable name starting with H.

These are your fellow citizens that live in middle class homes in 'middle Toronto' and mostly vote liberal at the provincial/federal level.

Which is why I have complete confidence that they won't be voting for an extreme right-winger like Ford.

It's a shame there wasn't a palatable centrist candidate; they'd be a shoe-in.

 

[js97]

Hang on. You can't both say that the garbage strike was the straw that broke the camel's back; and that Torontonians are upset about him being pro-union. The only reason we had the garbage strike was because he stood his ground, and wouldn't budge to the union.

I am just not willing to accept that the plurality of Torontonians are bigoted and racist enough to knowingly vote for someone like this. I don't even think that a plurallity are willing to vote for someone with his extensive criminal and ethical background. Hardcore Ford supporters perhaps would put up with it, and he'll likely win over the Bob Smith and Don Andrews supporters ... but people who answer a phone call, are rattled off a list of politicians they have never heard of, and simply say the name of the only politician they recognize who says he will cut at City Hall?

Ford is the benefit of the same kind of polling that gave Hall over 40% of decided voters in early polls for the 2003 election. However by October she was polling 23% (with the front-runner Miller polling 29%) and by election day she got under 10%.

Umm ... you know I'm centrist, right? I've even supported the Tories in the past ... though not in their current ultra-right wing form ... which seems to appear whenever the leader has a 2-syllable name starting with H.

Which is why I have complete confidence that they won't be voting for an extreme right-winger like Ford.

It's a shame there wasn't a palatable centrist candidate; they'd be a shoe-in.

you're a 'centrist'? lol perhaps your centre is a little more left than most other centrists.

There is nothing centrist about This administration, in the end, he dragged the city through a 6 week strike to get what?
He shoudl have pulled a Mayor Daly of Chicago and looked at replacement workers/job security measure. It's GARBAGE pick up for sakes. If anything, it was just more smoke and mirrors and posturing.

If you're true to your word, you shoudl vote Rocco Rossi

He's lead by Federal liberal support, supplemented by Red Tories. Like the Candidate or not, you know that's where his keel is planted and headed. Fiscally conservative, Socially liberal.
If that doesnt' define centre, I'm not sure what does.

 

[MisterF]

A streetcar is a streetcar, whether it runs in tunnels, on bridges, on the streets, in its private ROW... Torontonians know streetcars are slow and unreliable, just because this is called LRT - it's not going to fool anyone - people will continue commuting the way they used to.

I'm no fan of Transit City but this is way off. A streetcar or LRT train can go just as fast as a subway train if it's operating in the same conditions. Just because the Transit City lines will be slow that doesn't mean that LRT is inherently slow. You don't even need to leave Canada to see LRT operating at subway speeds.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Not to worry about Rob Ford's anti-transit, pro-car stance. Even if it will help result in dwindling supplies of food and water around the world. The military will be there to back Ford all the way. See this link for Military girds for climate change battles. While the rest of us try to do our small part by taking public transit and fighting suburban sprawl, know that the military will be called in to keep immigrants out from coming from their flooded homeland to Toronto.

 

[js97]

I'm no fan of Transit City but this is way off. A streetcar or LRT train can go just as fast as a subway train if it's operating in the same conditions. Just because the Transit City lines will be slow that doesn't mean that LRT is inherently slow. You don't even need to leave Canada to see LRT operating at subway speeds.

In theory.. but in practice? They will never operate under the 'same conditions', that's the major flaw in LRTs. That's why they won't be nearly as fast as Subways.


LRT's are adequate for short distances like Spadina, but across town on eglinton or in scarborough, it will be mind numbing.

 

[js97]

Not to worry about Rob Ford's anti-transit, pro-car stance. Even if it will help result in dwindling supplies of food and water around the world. The military will be there to back Ford all the way. See this link for Military girds for climate change battles. While the rest of us try to do our small part by taking public transit and fighting suburban sprawl, know that the military will be called in to keep immigrants out from coming from their flooded homeland to Toronto.

All your 'goodwill' in doing your 'green' part is all offset by the same government repaving roads everyear for make work projects. Think of all the asphalt!

 

[nfitz]

you're a 'centrist'? lol perhaps your centre is a little more left than most other centrists.

I've seldom supported the NDP, and I've seldom supported the Tories ... but I've supported both in the past. Perhaps I'm slightly left of centre ... but to question that I'm centrist seems bizarre.

If a Liberal or NDP candidate had issues with racism, bigotry, drug arrests, bribery, election fraud, drunk-driving, child abuse, and lying I'd be speaking out about them to.

There is nothing centrist about This administration, in the end, he dragged the city through a 6 week strike to get what?

A much lower salary increase than any other union got ... and a phase-out of their sick day benefits. The city got very close to what they offered the union at the beginning of the strike. And the strike was only for 6 weeks ... so what, people missed 2-3 garbage pick ups ... it was hardly that serious, I didn't even have to break out my second garbage can (though I did put a second green bin, and was piling newspapers in the basement).

He shoudl have pulled a Mayor Daly of Chicago and looked at replacement workers/job security measure. It's GARBAGE pick up for sakes. If anything, it was just more smoke and mirrors and posturing.

That would have violated labour laws

If you're true to your word, you shoudl vote Rocco Rossi

He has absolutely no political experience ... and he has made some pretty bizarre promises I really can't support ... like ripping up bike lanes we've already constructed ... and his math on the Toronto Hydro sale ... well it suggests that math isn't his strong point.

you're a 'centrist'? lol perhaps your centre is a little more left than most other centrists.

I've seldom supported the NDP, and I've seldom supported the Tories ... but I've supported both in the past. Perhaps I'm slightly left of centre ... but to question that I'm centrist seems bizarre.

If a Liberal or NDP candidate had issues with racism, bigotry, drug arrests, bribery, election fraud, drunk-driving, child abuse, and lying I'd be speaking out about them to.

There is nothing centrist about This administration, in the end, he dragged the city through a 6 week strike to get what?

A much lower salary increase than any other union got ... and a phase-out of their sick day benefits. The city got very close to what they offered the union at the beginning of the strike. And the strike was only for 6 weeks ... so what, people missed 2-3 garbage pick ups ... it was hardly that serious, I didn't even have to break out my second garbage can (though I did put a second green bin, and was piling newspapers in the basement).

He shoudl have pulled a Mayor Daly of Chicago and looked at replacement workers/job security measure. It's GARBAGE pick up for sakes. If anything, it was just more smoke and mirrors and posturing.

That would have violated labour laws

He's lead by Federal liberal support, supplemented by Red Tories. Like the Candidate or not, you know that's where his keel is planted and headed. Fiscally conservative, Socially liberal. If that doesnt' define centre, I'm not sure what does.

His politics are fine ... his platform disturbs me. If he can't do the basic math of selling Toronto Hydro properly, then how is he going to run one of the biggest budgets in the country. Quite frankly I'm more likely to vote for Thomson than Rossi - though her Libertarian ties ... and her trying to hide it, bothers me, along with her lack of experience.

 

[nfitz]

You don't even need to leave Canada to see LRT operating at subway speeds.

You won't have to even lead Toronto after the Eglinton line is constructed from Don Mills to Pearson. Or the Scarborough Centre line from Kennedy to Shepherd.