Rob Ford - Why the Supervillian?

[Glen]

I don't really care how you vote. My point was that the Tories - and people like Rob Ford - are assigned a kind of shorthand credibility on fiscal issues, despite the fact that reality doesn't back up this framing. In contrast, the NDP and "the left" will forever be branded as "fiscally irresponsible" despite the fact that an objective analysis shows that NDP governments, and/or "lefty" municipal governments like David Miller's Toronto, are no worse, and often better at managing public funds than other parties/ ideologies.

The problem with judging the fiscal credibility of all the parties is compounded by the way in which we judge them. To use the current council and Mayor as an example. If supporters were aware of the hundred of millions that were taken from reserve accounts (which must be refilled) and the upcoming (near 50%) tax increases to pay for present commitments was taken into account, do you think their opinions would remain positive? The public is easily inclined to make choices that offer short term gains at the expense of long term ones. James Buchanan won a Nobel prize for his work in this sphere.

 

[Parkdalian]

It does seem odd that I pay the most tax money to the federal government, the least to the city, and the rest to the province.

Yet when I look at services I actually receive, I get the most from the city, and the least from the federal government.

+1. Our Federal government should be cutting taxes.

 

[SimonP]

the upcoming (near 50%) tax increases to pay for present commitments was taken into account, do you think their opinions would remain positive?

I've previously pointed out that this allegation is false (or at least extremely unlikely), you should really stop repeating it.

 

[nfitz]

... and the upcoming (near 50%) tax increases to pay for present commitments was taken into account.

I fully expect the Conservatives to raise tax again sooner or later, but 50%? What ... take GST to 7.5%?

 

[Glen]

I've previously pointed out that this allegation is false (or at least extremely unlikely), you should really stop repeating it.

You were wrong then, as now.

Without asset sales or a significant increase in provincial funding, the tax bill could leap by about 12.5% in 2011, 11% in 2012, 9.75% in 2013 and 8.25% in 2014, city staff told the executive committee

which you interpreted as...

The dire double digit numbers quoted by Glen only occur if this funding vanishes, which is unlikely.

The warning is not predicated on reduced funding. It is predicated on no significant increase.

 

[Glen]

I fully expect the Conservatives to raise tax again sooner or later, but 50%? What ... take GST to 7.5%?

No, the warning came from city of Toronto staff regarding pending property tax increases, not the from the federal government.

 

[nfitz]

No, the warning came from city of Toronto staff regarding pending property tax increases, not the from the federal government.

That study seemed to have many erroneous assumptions. Politicians have already said this. There's a reason that staff don't have the final say on these things.

Staff were also saying previously that 2010 would be high, but it's barely above inflation.

 

[Glen]

That study seemed to have many erroneous assumptions. Politicians have already said this. There's a reason that staff don't have the final say on these things.

Staff were also saying previously that 2010 would be high, but it's barely above inflation.

Care to share what those erroneous assumptions were?

 

[SimonP]

The warning is not predicated on reduced funding. It is predicated on no significant increase.

Don't put so much blind faith in what you read in the Sun. You can read the actual report here. Note that the long term forecasts include 100% local funding for TTC operations, and also local funding for the currently unfunded transit portions of the capital budget.

 

[Fresh Start]

^ Why anytime someone disagrees with your point of view you accuse them of being Toronto Sun readers? Is that supposed to be some sort of a jab?

 

[js97]

Don't put so much blind faith in what you read in the Sun. You can read the actual report here. Note that the long term forecasts include 100% local funding for TTC operations, and also local funding for the currently unfunded transit portions of the capital budget.

This guy is a politician! -You deflect it so well!

I would much rather believe the numbers that come out of the City Manager/CFO of the city than ANY politician

FYI.... I've been reading the sun lately and I can tell you the objectivity in their articles surpass those of the Star. Who knew!



And this other acceptance that it's okay to raise property taxes in perpetuity is 'okay'?


We would never accept continuous increases in the GST 'in line with inflation', why should we accept it on our property taxes? There is organic growth in the economy and it increases gross revenue. The organic growth also occurs the same way in our property taxes. The last decade, we've seen an incredible increase in the amount of new sources in new developments, including condo, which contribute on average $2500 per unit in property taxes. And let's not forget increased property values that add to the tax bill. So really, the city has seen their property tax revenue increase from 3 sources, yet, they still can't manage it.



Anyways, last time I'm going to chime in on this administration... . Pantalone and the dippers will be relagated to a few councillors on october 25th...

 

[kEiThZ]

+1. Our Federal government should be cutting taxes.

They tried that (GST cut). People complained. And no province had the gumption to take up the tax that was vacated by the feds. Nor would the provinces let the cities do it.

 

[kEiThZ]

It does seem odd that I pay the most tax money to the federal government, the least to the city, and the rest to the province.

Yet when I look at services I actually receive, I get the most from the city, and the least from the federal government.

Except that a lot of what you pay to the feds flows back to the provinces through transfers and some to municipalities through things like infrastructure grants. Unfortunately, it's an oddity of our federation that we allow one level of government to do the fundraising for another level of government.

 

[SimonP]

^ Why anytime someone disagrees with your point of view you accuse them of being Toronto Sun readers? Is that supposed to be some sort of a jab?

It's not clear from Glen's post, but the article he is quoting came from the Sun.

 

[Glen]

Don't put so much blind faith in what you read in the Sun. You can read the actual report here. Note that the long term forecasts include 100% local funding for TTC operations, and also local funding for the currently unfunded transit portions of the capital budget.

Look at page 35 and compare the status quo vs. sustainable funding solution. The sustainable funding solution is nothing more than wishful thinking it includes 50$ TTC operating subsidy, uploading social housing costs and a portion of sales taxes. They might has well plotted a line on the graph representing the discovery of money trees in Toronto.

The chart above shows the forecasted tax rate increases under the three scenarios to
illustrate at a high level the options facing the City.
1. Status Quo
• High tax rate increases in early years show impacts of balancing the budget while
phasing out one time revenues, e.g. operating surplus
• Lower but substantial increase in future years as the tax base is raised; debt
charges start to fall and upload of social assistance and court security phase in.
2. Asset Monetization –
• Even if the City was able to free up hundreds of millions of dollars in asset sales,
the operating shortfall is not solved. For example, a reduction of debt charges of
$70 million in 2011 would reduce debt charges for, say 5 years which would cost
$350 million. This buys time for other funding adjustments to occur but does not
create a permanent revenue solution. Once the funding runs out, the pressure
reverts to the property tax base. Staff will continue to investigate monetization
options and will report back to Council in May or June of this year.
3. Sustainable Funding Solution
• The combined permanent sustainable funding would enable the City to stand on
sound financial footing, have enough resources to have modest service
investments and enhanced funding of liabilities, while keeping property tax
increases affordable.

Do you really think scenario 3 is more likely than scenario 1?