Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[11th]

To be slightly pedantic it comes down hard on anyone doing 50 Km/Hr ABOVE the posted speed limit. If the speed limits are raised to 120-130 Km/Hr than the stunt driving charges move to 170-180 Km/Hr, making stunt driving laws all but useless. Would you support a change in stunt driving laws that set the limits for stunt driving charges at the same current 150 Km/hr, or even a small bump to 160?



Actually yes I see drivers doing 130+ Km/hr nearly everyday on the 401/412/407*. At all times of the day, evenings, morning/afternoon peak, weekends. (asterix on the 407 because it's the one highway that seems to be designed for higher speed limits, and the traffic levels easily allow speeds at 130 Km/Hr

My point, perhaps made not so clearly, was that an increase in speed limits should be matched by enforcement of the posted speed limit. No more of this "oh just keeping up with traffic" or other rules thumbs used to justify speeds well above the posted limits. If you are above the posted limit, you are speeding and you get a ticket. If your confident that increasing speed limits won't be met by a proportional change in driver behaviour (number of speeders, and top speed of the speeders goes up in line with the speed limit increase), then like I said above those who continue to speed above to posted limit should face severe consequences. Personally I think the fraction of those drivers who think they are playing a real life game of mario kart will continue to drive as if every vehicle ahead of them is a goal for them to pass, and will do so regardless of the posted speed limit or the flow of the rest of traffic.

I remember when 5-10 Km/hr above the limit was the "rule of thumb" for being safe from police citing you for speeding. Then 20 Km/Hr above the limit became the norm. Now it seems that 130 Km/Hr is the free flow speed on most highways

5-10 km/h is for roads in urban settings. It's been max +20km/h on rural/highways for a long time.
Interesting though, you see people regularly doing 5-10 mph over the limit on US interstates.

 

[turbanplanner]

The problem in Ontario is that our speeding culture is derived from the fact that we have such a low speed limit. People (like admittedly myself) don't drive 120-125 because we feel an obligation to drive 20 above the speed limit, we do so because 100km/h is an unreasonably low speed limit, and we push the limit as much as we can get away with so that we can travel on these highways designed for 140km/h at a reasonable speed. I can promise you that in the event our speed limits are raised to 130, I personally wouldn't drive much faster than at most 135, because that's basically the limit at which I'm comfortable driving at.

My personal experience confirms this tbh. Going on the 110 sections people drive the same speed as before. I say way more pepple going 20 over in an 80 than 20 over in a 110!

 

[Dan416]

I agree. I don't see this as really increasing people's speeds, just acknowledging how fast people are driving on highways that are designed for these speeds. In the GTA, traffic will impact how fast people can go anyway. Considering how well-designed our freeways are, it's counterintuitive how low the speed limits are.

I'm also really curious to see which highways get updated to a 110 limit.

 

[drum118]

I agree. I don't see this as really increasing people's speeds, just acknowledging how fast people are driving on highways that are designed for these speeds. In the GTA, traffic will impact how fast people can go anyway. Considering how well-designed our freeways are, it's counterintuitive how low the speed limits are.

I'm also really curious to see which highways get updated to a 110 limit.

This is what Is see. 401, 402, 403, 404, 410, QEW, 416, 417 out side city area like they do in the states. Most of them could be 120-130 as well. Not sure if 427 will make the list. Same can be said about Hwy 11 and 406.

 

[2323]

This is what Is see. 401, 402, 403, 404, 410, QEW, 416, 417 out side city area like they do in the states. Most of them could be 120-130 as well. Not sure if 427 will make the list. Same can be said about Hwy 11 and 406.

I can see the 400 being bumped up especially once widening is complete. When traffic permits, there are generally clusters of cars going 130+ in the left lane as the highway is perfectly straight with almost no exits for some stretches.

 

[drum118]

I can see the 400 being bumped up especially once widening is complete. When traffic permits, there are generally clusters of cars going 130+ in the left lane as the highway is perfectly straight with almost no exits for some stretches.

I thought I had the 400 on the list, but looks like I removed when I made a few changes by error and should be there.

 

[Deadpool X]

Highways in Europe have much higher speed limits despite non-existent left shoulder, very short merging lanes, and sharper curves. If Europeans were to decide speed limit on Ontario's highways, they won't post anything below 150.

 

[Northern Light]

Ok.......

Ontario government engineers to withdraw services from Highway 413, Bradford Bypass

A group of professional engineers plan to soon withdraw services from key Ontario infrastructure projects Highway 413 and the Bradford Bypass as part of a bargaining dispute with the province.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

From the above:

By all accounts this is a wage dispute.

The Engineers in question have apparently been working w/o a contract for 20 months........and their rate of pay has now fallen to 30 to 50% below comparable peers in municipal government.

So this is a pressure tactic to get Treasury Board's attention.

 

[turbanplanner]

Highways in Europe have much higher speed limits despite non-existent left shoulder, very short merging lanes, and sharper curves. If Europeans were to decide speed limit on Ontario's highways, they won't post anything below 150.

See how many people have barely running cars, no brake lights, or pass on the right in those countries?

 

[ericmacm]

Ok.......

Ontario government engineers to withdraw services from Highway 413, Bradford Bypass

A group of professional engineers plan to soon withdraw services from key Ontario infrastructure projects Highway 413 and the Bradford Bypass as part of a bargaining dispute with the province.

toronto.ctvnews.ca

From the above:

View attachment 606598

By all accounts this is a wage dispute.

The Engineers in question have apparently been working w/o a contract for 20 months........and their rate of pay has now fallen to 30 to 50% below comparable peers in municipal government.

So this is a pressure tactic to get Treasury Board's attention.

I was reading some articles on this earlier and this will be their first labour action in over 35 years. Their justification is that the pay at Ontario Public Service (OPS), who PEGO represents, has stagnated enough that the pay in both the private sector and in municipal government positions is significantly more competitive, such that the OPS is having difficulty retaining or hiring staff.

For perspective, I was looking at recent job positions posted by OPS and municipalities. An EIT (engineer-in-training) position with OPS appears to have a wage scale ranging from approx $54,000-$79,000/year. City of London, for example, pays its EITs approx $79,000-$98,000/year. A professional engineer with OPS has a wage scale ranging from $79,000-$109,000/year. City of London pays engineers $99,000-$130,000/year. Obviously there will be variations dependent on the municipality and the stream or specialization of engineering that the position is for, but there is very clearly a massive gap between the two.

It’s difficult to compare to the private sector since wages in the private sector are all over the place, pay can be opaque, and can vary depending on where you are in Ontario (I am hearing of some horrifyingly low pay in the GTA these days), but I would say that in my personal experience that OPS roughly tracks with what the corporate engineering consulting sector offers at this time, with the added drawback of low, gradual increases and being unable to renegotiate your salary like you can in the private sector. The benefits at OPS are likely very good, but at the end of the day, money talks, especially for a skilled profession that requires taking on liability.

 

[T3G]

See how many people have barely running cars, no brake lights, or pass on the right in those countries?

Are you implying Canadian drivers are more civilized than European ones!?

There are lots of awful drivers in Europe, especially in Italy and France, but the situation on the roads there pales in comparison with what one sees on the roads in Toronto every day.

 

[turbanplanner]

Are you implying Canadian drivers are more civilized than European ones!?

There are lots of awful drivers in Europe, especially in Italy and France, but the situation on the roads there pales in comparison with what one sees on the roads in Toronto every day.

No, the opposite. I found most of the awful in Europe was not caring about others property (scraping strangers cars)

 

[T3G]

No, the opposite. I found most of the awful in Europe was not caring about others property (scraping strangers cars)

Ah okay. I misread the tone of your post. My apologies.

 

[ericmacm]

A tentative agreement is apparently now in place between Ontario and Shawanaga First Nation on the HWY 69/400 extension toward Sudbury. Negotiations continue on getting them additional reserve land to replace the lands that will be required for the highway project. Negotiations with the other two nations on the corridor (Henvey Inlet and Magnetawan First Nations) are reported to be continuing. The portion of the project that concerns the lands of the Shawanaga FN, the ~11km segment from Shebeshegong Road to Pointe au Baril, is not yet in design. Hopefully it will be following a formal agreement with the province. Only the ~12km segment going north from HWY 559 in Nobel (which ends just outside of Shawanaga FN lands) and the ~20km segment going south from Pickerel River Road to HWY 529 in Britt (through the Henvey Inlet FN lands) are currently in-design or are in design procurement, and both of which are slated for construction start in 2026-2027.

 

[innsertnamehere]

finally. The 69 twinning is wildly behind schedule. Hopefully more segments proceed soon.