Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[Sunnyside]

I am doubtful we will see a full expressway on HWY 6 anytime soon, but I’m of the opinion that it is gradually moving in that direction. I don’t think it will be justified until both KWCG and Hamilton are larger, until HWY 7 is complete, and until HWY 6 is full grade separated through Guelph. I wouldn’t be surprised to see more control on access and intersection removals, as well as property acquisitions/expropriations along the highway in the near future, though.

As for HWY 424, I don’t think that is going to have much of an impact on HWY 6’s future, as HWY 6 is a much more direct connection between KWCG and Hamilton. I think that HWY 424 is going to sit on the back burner until Brantford fills up it’s northern expansion lands (which probably won’t take long given the crazy rate of development out there), and Cambridge development jumps to the south side of McQueen Shaver Boulevard, which I am now suspecting is going to end up forming part of HWY 424 in the future, given that a 60 m ROW is being maintained along that corridor.

I agree with your points here. I’d add that Highway 6 is pretty much free flowing inbetween where the Morriston bypass starts and Highway 5/Dundas, so there isn’t much need after those are dealt with.

I initially brought up the 413 because I can foresee people using Highway 6 to get to the 401 to bypass Toronto via the 413, rather than using the 403 and being forced to grab the 407. Network effect and such. There is a small but growing number of people that take highway 6 at rush hour off the 401 to avoid the QEW (particularly if your destination is north of the 401, where under typical rush hour conditions travel times vs. QEW are negligible)

 

[innsertnamehere]

There will be 4 signalized intersections along Highway 6 between the 401 and 403 once the Hwy 5 interchange and Morriston Bypass is complete, plus a potential 5th if Parkside Drive isn't closed when the Waterdown Bypass is finally completed like originally planned.

That's not exactly free-flowing in my books.

plus the lack of central median barrier makes it quite a dangerous highway in general, and the 80km/h speed limit isn't exactly super conductive to long distance travel.

It takes an hour to drive from Hamilton to Kitchener as it is today, that should really be closer to 45 minutes with proper modern highway infrastructure.

There of course should also be better public tranist infrastructure linking the two cities.. the two have a shocking lack of connecting infrastructure in general.

 

[gweed123]

Personally, I'd rather see a new freeway alignment built parallel to the Hwy 8 corridor between Hamilton and Cambridge than an upgraded Hwy 6 (beyond the interchange at Hwy 5 and the Morriston By-pass). Have it split from Hwy 6 north of the Waterdown By-pass, run due west until comes close to Hwy 8. It would then parallel Hwy 8, and cut up either the east side of Cambridge to the 401 somewhere around Townline Rd, or around the south side of Cambridge and connect to the 401 somewhere around Homer Watson. It's a much more direct route between the two cities, and would likely bring the traffic on Hwy 6 down to a level more appropriate for the existing configuration of the roadway.

The connection to the 401 could also double as the northern end of Hwy 424 to Brantford.

 

[Sunnyside]

There will be 4 signalized intersections along Highway 6 between the 401 and 403 once the Hwy 5 interchange and Morriston Bypass is complete, plus a potential 5th if Parkside Drive isn't closed when the Waterdown Bypass is finally completed like originally planned.

That's not exactly free-flowing in my books.

plus the lack of central median barrier makes it quite a dangerous highway in general, and the 80km/h speed limit isn't exactly super conductive to long distance travel.

It takes an hour to drive from Hamilton to Kitchener as it is today, that should really be closer to 45 minutes with proper modern highway infrastructure.

There of course should also be better public tranist infrastructure linking the two cities.. the two have a shocking lack of connecting infrastructure in general.

The signalized intersections are a good point. I almost forgot about them. I do make this commute fairly regularly, and I will say you don’t really hit the lights often- but when you do, they definetely slow you down.

Also worth noting, everyone just drives 100 on it. This worsens the factors you’ve mentioned, because it’s essentially acting like a true highway even if it isn’t one. I agree this trip should be faster, but that would require separating more of the intersections or creating a more direct link, I think. The speed limit might go up once the aforementioned upgrades are built but serious work would be necessary to get this into proper highway territory.

For transit, the expansion of GO bus service will be the limit. The rail link to KW-C is long gone sadly. If RTPs are any indication, there might be a KW-Brantford-Hamilton bus via Hwy 24 and KW-Cambridge-Hamilton bus via Hwy 8. Either of these could be fairly fast- faster than the 17 for sure, but likely not if they introduce an “express” version of it.

 

[Allandale25]

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[Morriston1986]

My whole reasoning for caring about the local road system is because my life would change if they built a bypass around Morriston.
Theyve made great progress on the first phases of the highway 6 re-alignment, but when are they realistically going to attempt the put a shovel in the ground for the huge project that is the construction of the bypass, widening of the 401 between 6 North and 6 South

 

[dullturtle06]

My whole reasoning for caring about the local road system is because my life would change if they built a bypass around Morriston.
Theyve made great progress on the first phases of the highway 6 re-alignment, but when are they realistically going to attempt the put a shovel in the ground for the huge project that is the construction of the bypass, widening of the 401 between 6 North and 6 South

They MTO had funds designated for the project, but Ford moved them to the 413 project last election. So there is no funding at this time. The 413 would need to be killed permanently then MTO could move the funds back for HWY 6 and HWY 7.

 

[Morriston1986]

Yes, I have read thoroughly on how highly ranked the HWY 6 re-alignment was, and how much less needed the 413 was, but it was a political move none the less.

 

[DylanMcMahon]

Highway 408 with Hamilton connector

 

[Sunnyside]

Highway 408 with Hamilton connector
View attachment 490311

After some thought, since the sticking point with the mid-pen is really the 403-407 section- we’d be better off if it just ended at the 403 wherever the “424” eventually goes, avoiding the escarpment issue entirely. This is about as close to the original plan as I imagine you could get, though!

 

[DylanMcMahon]

After some thought, since the sticking point with the mid-pen is really the 403-407 section- we’d be better off if it just ended at the 403 wherever the “424” eventually goes, avoiding the escarpment issue entirely. This is about as close to the original plan as I imagine you could get, though!

Yes the escarpment could pose a lot of issues but I do see waterdown and flamborough being developed at some point. It might be good to build that section at a later date

 

[Sunnyside]

Yes the escarpment could pose a lot of issues but I do see waterdown and flamborough being developed at some point. It might be good to build that section at a later date

Well it’s not that the escarpment is a challenge per se. Last time I talked about the mid-pen, I was reminded how much of it runs through greenbelt- the Niagara Escarpment has so many protections that actually constructing this thing would be the least of our problems. Good idea to let that be deferred, though- while it might be key to the project to reach another highway, going further north to the 401 fulfills that and might encounter less... friction, akin to the rest of the ‘408’.

 

[innsertnamehere]

The Mid-Penn never made much sense to me, and neither did it to MTO who recommended not pursuing it.

There is still plenty of space to just widen the QEW if extra capacity is needed on the Niagara Peninsula.

 

[Sunnyside]

The Mid-Penn never made much sense to me, and neither did it to MTO who recommended not pursuing it.

There is still plenty of space to just widen the QEW if extra capacity is needed on the Niagara Peninsula.

I would much rather see the money go to expanding LSW to Niagara in truth, I figured I’d address the highway in a vacuum though. If we ever built the mid-pen, it should be to replace at least part of the QEW, turning the rest into a road or boulevard- or at least downsizing it dramatically. It is a scar on what is supposed to be extremely valuable farmland, even moreso than what’s atop the escarpment.

Since that point doesn’t really go anywhere, I’m curious why the MTO found it useless. I thought they were conjuring up various complex ways to relieve the QEW for a time? I would assume the Mid-Pen fit into that well.

 

[Deadpool X]

If we ever built the mid-pen, it should be to replace at least part of the QEW, turning the rest into a road or boulevard- or at least downsizing it dramatically. It is a scar on what is supposed to be extremely valuable farmland, even moreso than what’s atop the escarpment.

I doubt the land under the roadway would still be in a good condition for farming.

What if mid-pen becomes congested again and MTO realizes narrowing QEW was a waste. Would you prefer them acquiring the farmland back again to widen QEW?

Infrastructure has become much more expensive to build. I don't get why you would want to undo an already built highway only to build a parallel highway.