Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[darth_freeman]

This is true but the main cause of the bottleneck is the reduction (yes reduction) in the number of through lanes for the majority of the users (single occupancy commuters) from 3 lanes to 2.

The entire expansion has been delivered poorly and while some here with a bit of knowledge of the concept of "induced demand" were aware that the extra lanes would eventually make it worse not better, no one expected it to be worse from day one with no prospect of getting better.

But keep in mind the goal is to reduce travel times. So even now if it's slow between Steeles/407 to Queen then it's still better than before when it was slow from Courtney Park to Queen.

Everyone driving this route should be asking their representatives for MTO to accelerate the completion of the HOV upto Bovaird/wherever.

 

[TOareaFan]

But keep in mind the goal is to reduce travel times. So even now if it's slow between Steeles/407 to Queen then it's still better than before when it was slow from Courtney Park to Queen.

Everyone driving this route should be asking their representatives for MTO to accelerate the completion of the HOV upto Bovaird/wherever.

On most days the only way I can replicate my pre-construction trip times to home (around Bovaird and Kennedy) is to get off the 410 at Derry and take Kennedy north to home. If I stay on the highway I am 5 - 10 minutes longer than I was previously.

The sad thing is that I typically don't leave downtown until somewhere between 6:30 and 7:30 at night........I feel bad for those forced to leave in that 4:30 to 6 peak rush period.

 

[nfitz]

But keep in mind the goal is to reduce travel times.

Is it? For single occupancy vehicles? Is that stated somewhere?

 

[Translude15]

On most days the only way I can replicate my pre-construction trip times to home (around Bovaird and Kennedy) is to get off the 410 at Derry and take Kennedy north to home. If I stay on the highway I am 5 - 10 minutes longer than I was previously.

The sad thing is that I typically don't leave downtown until somewhere between 6:30 and 7:30 at night........I feel bad for those forced to leave in that 4:30 to 6 peak rush period.

Took 410NB once a week during the PM rush hour from spring to fall last year and it was a complete shit show. It's such an abrupt transition from 5 lanes to 3 and then 2 past Williams Pkwy. An extension of the HOV lanes to Boivard should be completed ASAP but 3 lanes per direction to Sandalwood would be ideal. That would be sufficient capacity-wise for the next quarter century at least.

 

[darth_freeman]

On most days the only way I can replicate my pre-construction trip times to home (around Bovaird and Kennedy) is to get off the 410 at Derry and take Kennedy north to home. If I stay on the highway I am 5 - 10 minutes longer than I was previously.

The sad thing is that I typically don't leave downtown until somewhere between 6:30 and 7:30 at night........I feel bad for those forced to leave in that 4:30 to 6 peak rush period.

That's funny because 410 is mostly cleared by 6:30 anyways. So I'm not really buying that your commute is 10 minutes longer outside of rush hour.

And how much slower is your morning commute now that the highway has been widened?

 

[TOareaFan]

That's funny because 410 is mostly cleared by 6:30 anyways. So I'm not really buying that your commute is 10 minutes longer outside of rush hour.

.

If you want to call me a liar....just go ahead and do it...no need to fancy up the words.

My drive home, most days, leaving the office between 6:30 and 7:30 is 5 - 10 minutes longer than the pre-construction commute times with the same variables.

And how much slower is your morning commute now that the highway has been widened?

The morning commute is roughly the same as before. There is a daily log jam until you get south of queen but it opens up there and is mostly faster than before so the net effect is about neutral to slightly better. From Bovaird to Queen we have 3 "all vehicle" lanes (just like before) and south of queen we have 4 of those and 1 HOV....so the southbound traffic is not anywhere near as negatively impacted as northbound.

 

[darth_freeman]

Is it? For single occupancy vehicles? Is that stated somewhere?

Obviously HOV traffic will be much improved as well.

 

[TOareaFan]

Took 410NB once a week during the PM rush hour from spring to fall last year and it was a complete shit show. It's such an abrupt transition from 5 lanes to 3 and then 2 past Williams Pkwy. An extension of the HOV lanes to Boivard should be completed ASAP but 3 lanes per direction to Sandalwood would be ideal. That would be sufficient capacity-wise for the next quarter century at least.

it does not narrow to 2 lanes NB until after Bovaird.

 

[pstogios]

Is it? For single occupancy vehicles? Is that stated somewhere?

A 2-second Google search finds:

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2017/11/ontario-opens-new-lanes-on-highway-410.html
Investing in our highway infrastructure is vital to Ontario’s economy. This stretch of Highway 410 already experiences a high volume of traffic and will only get busier as this region continues to grow. The addition of both HOV and general purpose lanes will help us manage congestion and improve mobility in the daily commutes of Ontarians travelling across the region.”
Steven Del Duca
Minister of Transportation

(emphasis mine)
By the ex-Minister’s own project success criteria, this project appears to be a failure for non-HOV lane commuters.

 

[nfitz]

A 2-second Google search finds:

https://news.ontario.ca/mto/en/2017/11/ontario-opens-new-lanes-on-highway-410.html
Investing in our highway infrastructure is vital to Ontario’s economy. This stretch of Highway 410 already experiences a high volume of traffic and will only get busier as this region continues to grow. The addition of both HOV and general purpose lanes will help us manage congestion and improve mobility in the daily commutes of Ontarians travelling across the region.”
Steven Del Duca
Minister of Transportation

(emphasis mine)
By the ex-Minister’s own project success criteria, this project appears to be a failure for non-HOV lane commuters.

Normally there's a temporal nature to these things, that a brief summary wouldn't catch. For example, much of the goal of the Transit City lines wasn't so much to make commutes much faster, but to mitigate the anticipated worsening of commutes as the suburban roads became evermore congested. I wonder how it is worded in the MOECC-approved EA for the 410 expansion.

 

[cbrown2009]

That's funny because 410 is mostly cleared by 6:30 anyways. So I'm not really buying that your commute is 10 minutes longer outside of rush hour.

That stretch of 410 from Steeles (or even Derry) north to Queen definitely does not clear by 6:30pm. I regularly see parking lot conditions well beyond 7 and even 8pm most weekday evenings. I never use that stretch of road during the pm rush or evenings until after 9pm.

The HOV lane + 3 general lane configuration should definitely be extended to Bovaird ASAP as was stated before, and 3 lanes up to Sandalwood or better yet, Mayfield.

 

[innsertnamehere]

That stretch of 410 from Steeles (or even Derry) north to Queen definitely does not clear by 6:30pm. I regularly see parking lot conditions well beyond 7 and even 8pm most weekday evenings. I never use that stretch of road during the pm rush or evenings until after 9pm.

The HOV lane + 3 general lane configuration should definitely be extended to Bovaird ASAP as was stated before, and 3 lanes up to Sandalwood or better yet, Mayfield.

In a lot of ways it's hard to believe that the 410 north of Bovaird is only 10 years old.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Here’s a response on my questions about 16th Ave at Highway 404. It appears York Region does meet with the MTO quite often, so that’s good to see. Something not as good is that there’s an inconsistency when it comes to the southbound off ramp. The drawings from York Region show that it remains as 2 lanes, but the Contract 2 report shows it as 3 lanes. Otherwise, it’s great the Contract 2 contains most of the work needed at the 16th Ave interchange, other than the interchange reconfiguration contingent on Buttonville Airport closing of course.

Good morning Leo,

This email is a follow up to your comments regarding the 16th Avenue EA Study and the Highway 404 HOV widening construction.

Thank you for your suggestion to implement dual left-turn lanes from 16th Avenue eastbound to Highway 404 northbound. In order to implement dual left-turn lanes, 16th Avenue would need to be widened even further at the intersection to five lanes, requiring more property and/or a larger bridge at Highway 404. Dual left-turn lanes on Regional arterial roads would require changes to the timing of the traffic signals which may cause delays to other movements at the intersection. The wider cross section would also increase the crossing distance and the duration of the red light.

Regarding your comment about dedicated right-turn lanes, when Regional roads are widened from four to six lanes, no additional auxiliary right-turn lanes are provided. At intersections, the Transit/HOV lanes will also function as right-turn lanes for single-occupant vehicles. Buses are expected to arrive every 15 minutes, which should give sufficient opportunities to make right turns. Right-turn lanes would also increase crossing distance and red light time.

Based on the York Regional Council-approved2018 10-Year Roads and Transit Capital Construction Program, the first section of the 16th Avenue road improvements, between Leslie Street and Woodbine Avenue, is expected to begin in 2021. There are portions of this section at Highway 404 currently in the detailed design phase. The Ministry of Transportation Ontario (MTO) is leading the design assignment which will involve advancing some of the 16th Avenue improvements as part of their Highway 404 HOV widening construction. York Region is working closely with MTO in this process, with meetings every couple of weeks. MTO anticipates to begin work at 16th Avenue and Highway 404 in 2019. By copy of this email, your feedback regarding the interchange at Highway 404 and 16th Avenue has been forwarded to the MTO for their consideration in their Highway 404 HOV widening project.

The remaining sections of the 16th Avenue road improvements are not currently in the 10-Year Program; therefore, construction is at least ten years away and detailed design has not yet begun.

Thank you for your interest in the 16th Avenue EA Study, and for taking the time to provide us with your suggestions. Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to notify us.

Sincerely,

Ashley Pacheco | Communications and Community Engagement Specialist,
Strategic Initiatives and Programs, Transportation Services

 

[Neutrino]

On Google Maps, as I write this, 410 NB is still red and orange from the 407 to Williams Parkway. EDIT: Red (worse) up to Queen.

 

[darth_freeman]

On Google Maps, as I write this, 410 NB is still red and orange from the 407 to Williams Parkway. EDIT: Red (worse) up to Queen.

Still better than before when it was red from 401 to Williams Parkway. Plus if you carpool now the delay will be very small.