Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[gweed123]

The white belt extends up to the concession that the 410 ends at I believe, so I think that's 4km further north if I remember correctly.

It's interesting to watch Brampton use as much white belt as it can while Markham is purposefully leaving significant portions of the white belt out of their future urban boundaries..

Very good point. Then again, Markham also has an RT corridor and a whole new downtown to grow along/in. Brampton has more or less a historic downtown with a few potential development sites. They don't really have the same type of focal point for higher density development like Markham or Richmond Hill or Vaughan or Mississauga.

If Brampton really wanted one, IMO the best site would be a redevelopment of Shoppers World and a few surrounding sites. With the Hurontario LRT and enhanced Zum service on Steeles (perhaps even a Rapidway type of design), that could be a great new node.

 

[ShonTron]

The white belt extends up to the concession that the 410 ends at I believe, so I think that's 4km further north if I remember correctly.

That would be Old School Road (former 22nd concession, Chinguacousy Township). I believe you are right, that would be the limit of Caledon's urban growth zone (except for areas surrounding Bolton to the south and west).

It's interesting to watch Brampton use as much white belt as it can while Markham is purposefully leaving significant portions of the white belt out of their future urban boundaries..

Brampton's quickly running out of easily developable land; this is going to be the challenge facing Brampton's next mayor and council. There have been plans to intensify the Queen Street corridor (every main-line auto dealership has now left with Frost GM the last to move), and there are now plans tied in with the Hurontario-Main LRT to intensify developable lands near Shoppers World and other parcels (such as Brampton Mall at Nanwood). Unfortunately, it's the status quo elsewhere in the city.

 

[doady]

It doesn't seem like Brampton has much redevelopment potential outside Shopper's World and Queen Street anyways... And they never preserved any additional land for high density. Compare Brampton to the rest of the 905, they much less high density, less multi-family housing of any kind. Brampton has been the most short-sighted of all.

 

[ShonTron]

It doesn't seem like Brampton has much redevelopment potential outside Shopper's World and Queen Street anyways... And they never preserved any additional land for high density. Compare Brampton to the rest of the 905, they much less high density, less multi-family housing of any kind. Brampton has been the most short-sighted of all.

I know you like bashing Brampton, doady, but seriously? Oakville, Pickering, Milton today almost all of York Region (except Markham), heck, Mississauga 15 years ago. Brampton is pretty much at where Mississauga was at that time.

 

[doady]

I know you like bashing Brampton, doady, but seriously? Oakville, Pickering, Milton today almost all of York Region (except Markham), heck, Mississauga 15 years ago. Brampton is pretty much at where Mississauga was at that time.

And I know you like denying the truth, ShonTron. But seriously:

Vaughan: 4 high rises under construction
Markham: 9
Richmond Hill: 10
Oakville: 2
Burlington: 2
Mississauga: 6
Brampton: 1

Mississauga 15 years ago: 205 high rises built
Brampton today: 66

http://skyscraperpage.com/database/country/1

Enough said.

 

[MrsNesbitt]

And I know you like denying the truth, ShonTron. But seriously:

Vaughan: 4 high rises under construction
Markham: 9
Richmond Hill: 10
Oakville: 2
Burlington: 2
Mississauga: 6
Brampton: 1

Mississauga 15 years ago: 205 high rises built
Brampton today: 66

http://skyscraperpage.com/database/country/1

Enough said.

I don't know what they're counting as high-rises, but those numbers certainly aren't right for all places.

Pickering has two high-rises, one of which is a tower-in-the-park (1210 Radom St) the other a newer condo (at Bayly and Liverpool); the other apartments here I would count as mid-rise. Whichever way you slice it, I would think Pickering or Ajax could vie for the title of least dense municipality in all the GTA.

 

[gweed123]

I don't know what they're counting as high-rises, but those numbers certainly aren't right for all places.

Pickering has two high-rises, one of which is a tower-in-the-park (1210 Radom St) the other a newer condo (at Bayly and Liverpool); the other apartments here I would count as mid-rise. Whichever way you slice it, I would think Pickering or Ajax could vie for the title of least dense municipality in all the GTA.

Which is a shame, because they, along with maybe Halton Region, have the most ideal setup for density in the entire GTHA. Through most of the developed region they have a major highway and a GO line often within a few hundred metres of eachother. Especially around GO stations, this is a God-send for TOD. Yet most of those areas are still surrounded by low density commercial or industrial, particularly in Halton's case.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Pickering has 2 highrise office buildings as well, both right beside the bridge to the GO station.

The Pickering GO station gets 9,000 daily users, roughly equal to smaller subway stations.

 

[TOareaFan]

And I know you like denying the truth, ShonTron. But seriously:

Vaughan: 4 high rises under construction
Markham: 9
Richmond Hill: 10
Oakville: 2
Burlington: 2
Mississauga: 6
Brampton: 1

Mississauga 15 years ago: 205 high rises built
Brampton today: 66

http://skyscraperpage.com/database/country/1

Enough said.

Is it municipalities that build highrises or developers? Brampton has multiple highrise sites approved but no action has taken place on them....this is likely a combination of factors but to claim the city is short sighted because developers/builders have not built highrises is way overly simplistic.

For example, it has to be over 20 years now since the City created its plans to create a high rise corridor from the 4 corners east to the 410....in that time, what, 2 developers have risen to that goal and built....dotted along the site are empty lots where car dealerships used to be. At least as it relates to that corridor, there probably is no municipality more welcoming to high rise/multi-family development....yet it hasn't happened.

In the core of Brampton there are also multiple sites designated for high rise but, again, development has not taken off. Perhaps the slight increase in the frequency of GO trains coming next year will create a bit more demand and the solution that seems to have been found to the floodplain issue will lower the costs such that developers see more potential profits from developing their properties....or perhaps there is just not a significant demand for apartment/condo living in Brampton?

 

[TOareaFan]

Pickering has 2 highrise office buildings as well, both right beside the bridge to the GO station.

The Pickering GO station gets 9,000 daily users, roughly equal to smaller subway stations.

And Brampton has existing office buildings right by their GO Train station that have large vacancies.....there may be a connection?

 

[salsa]

Is it municipalities that build highrises or developers? Brampton has multiple highrise sites approved but no action has taken place on them....this is likely a combination of factors but to claim the city is short sighted because developers/builders have not built highrises is way overly simplistic.

But why is Markham having so much more success?

 

[TOareaFan]

But why is Markham having so much more success?

Greater demand for that type of housing in Markham? I can walk you to at least 4 sites approved by Brampton that have seen sales efforts launched and no building taking place. Clearly not just a municipal approval problem in Brampton.

 

[gweed123]

But why is Markham having so much more success?

Markham is building the transit in conjunction with the buildings. Promising transit is one thing, but seeing the transit being built while your condo or office is being built too cements it a lot more.

Just my guess though.

 

[innsertnamehere]

Markham sfh are more expensive, a condo is a more realistic option there.

 

[TOareaFan]

Markham is building the transit in conjunction with the buildings. Promising transit is one thing, but seeing the transit being built while your condo or office is being built too cements it a lot more.

Just my guess though.

Yep...Brampton is not building any transit.......all of the sites that have launched and seen no activity in Brampton are on Zum lines.