Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[nfitz]

The province wants to widen the entire 401 to 6 lanes eventually. I'd assume the section east of the 416 is the lowest priority, however.

Where do you hear that? I think a former short-lived transport minister said something a few years ago that might have implied that if taken out-of-context - but I don't think there's ever been any official information that they want to make it all 6 lanes eventually. It hardly seems appropriate east of Prescott.

 

[gweed123]

The AADT from 2010 says that the highest 4-lane segment east of Toronto is a tie between Burnham Street and Highway 45 in Cobourg (that's now planned for completion of widening in 2016) and the bridge over the Trent River in Trenton (I believe the recent rehabilitation of that bridge included adding extra lanes that I assume they will open once the widened 401 reaches that far).

After that the next busiest stretch is from Highway 45 in Cobourg to the next interchange east. Between Trenton and Belleville is certainly not far behind though. I'd think that 4-laning will continue to Belleville and then to Kingston in small pieces - in the same manner it's been ongoing since the 1970s. Ultimately though, I can't seeing it go past the 416.

Yes I saw that stretch included in the Southern Highways document posted earlier. That's good, but that's still a pretty small stretch. And yes, when they rebuilt the Trent bridge they definitely widened it in the process.

I figured between Trenton and Belleville would be high on the list because those two cities are becoming increasingly intertwined, with the 401 being used a lot for commuter traffic as well, much the same reason why the highway was widened in Kingston (to deal with commuter + thru traffic).

And yes, I can't see it being needed east of the 416 either. In fact, east of Gananoque I can't really see much of a short term need, except for maybe widening through Belleville in order to deal with the quick couple of on/off ramps, and between Prescott and the 416, in order to deal with 416 traffic merging going westbound, and 416 traffic splitting going eastbound.

If I had to prioritize the widening, it would probably be (not including those that are already underway or are immediately impending):

1) Trenton on-route to just east of Belleville (on-route included in order to deal with the big hill you need to go up heading westbound, that really needs a 3rd truck lane).
2) Through Napanee and up the hill just east of Napanee.
3) Join the 6 lane sections between Cobourg and Trenton.
4) Through Belleville and from Prescott to the 416.
5) Join the 6 lane sections between Kingston and Napanee.
6) Join the 6 lane sections between Belleville and Napanee.
7) Extend 6 lanes east to Gananoque.

Note: I'm only talking about the eastern section of the 401 here, as that's the section that I drive most often. I'm only vaguely familiar with the details of the traffic issues on the west 401.

 

[Neil]

^+1 except 7) should go to the Interstate 81 Exit.

 

[MisterF]

Six lanes for the entire 401 is unnecessary, especially east of Kingston. Volumes drop even more past the 416, where the 417 provides an alternate route.

I'd rather see them spend that money on improving VIA Rail through the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor. I know that's a federal responsibility, but there's nothing stopping the province from topping up what VIA gets from the feds. Kind of like what a lot of states in the U.S. do with Amtrak.

 

[ShonTron]

I really want to see the Highway 62 interchange convered from a full cloverleaf. I wonder if the reason it hasn't yet is because of the congestion southbound (where Highway 62 becomes known as North Front Street) and the close traffic signal at Bell Blvd. A reverse "B" parclo might make sense here (two exits, one entrance), at least for eastbound traffic, a regular "A" parclo to Highway 401 westbound.

The Highway 37 interchange was recently rebuilt to improve the ramps (37 also used to be a full cloverleaf) and increased slightly the distance between the 62 and 37 exits.

 

[Neil]

Six lanes for the entire 401 is unnecessary, especially east of Kingston. Volumes drop even more past the 416, where the 417 provides an alternate route.

I'd rather see them spend that money on improving VIA Rail through the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor. I know that's a federal responsibility, but there's nothing stopping the province from topping up what VIA gets from the feds. Kind of like what a lot of states in the U.S. do with Amtrak.

I drive the Cobourg - Ottawa route frequently, and take VIA as well. 6 lanes on the 401 is required now. East of Interstate 81 is the only stretch where 4 lanes is adequate. I would applaud more investment into intercity rail since it would get more people out of airplanes and their personal cars. However, it will not affect the truck traffic nor the local use of the 401 east of Toronto.

 

[gweed123]

^+1 except 7) should go to the Interstate 81 Exit.

Good call, that definitely makes sense. And only a few KMs more compared to Gananoque.

I really want to see the Highway 62 interchange convered from a full cloverleaf. I wonder if the reason it hasn't yet is because of the congestion southbound (where Highway 62 becomes known as North Front Street) and the close traffic signal at Bell Blvd. A reverse "B" parclo might make sense here (two exits, one entrance), at least for eastbound traffic, a regular "A" parclo to Highway 401 westbound.

The Highway 37 interchange was recently rebuilt to improve the ramps (37 also used to be a full cloverleaf) and increased slightly the distance between the 62 and 37 exits.

Yeah, that 37-62 complex there is pretty crazy. There can definitely be some improvements made there.

 

[ssiguy2]

Hi everyone, I've been reading threads on this forum for years, but this thread was the one that motivated me to register.

I grew up in Oakville and became accustomed to the GTA highway system. Now I live in London and am absolutely astonished by how outdated the infrastructure is. A northern bypass of the city just north of Masonville makes a lot of sense.

I do a lot of travelling for work, and to get from my office by White Oaks/401 to the Masonville area, it's faster to take Adelaide or Wonderland than to use Richmond (although once the bridge by Western is complete it should be a lot better). A 10 km trip shouldn't take 30-45 more when you only live in a CMA of 477,000.

The 401 doesn't need to be widened here. AADT between Veteran's and 402 is only 65K. Adding a northern bypass should be far higher on the priority list.

On a different note, I've spent a few years of my life in Hamilton, and am still confused why the 403 is reduced to 4 lanes between Main East and the mountain. Also, almost the entire stretch of 403 through Hamilton isn't even lit! It needs a lot of improvements.

Lastly, one thing I'm surprised to find no one has commented on is the excellent on ramps we have in Ontario. On ramps on 400 series highways must have at least 100 meter room to merge in. The entire US interstate system you typically have about 30 meters from arterial road interchanges.

The situation in London is deplorable and will only get worse. As a native Londoner I know the terrible traffic situation in the city. I have been to every major city in the country and London far and away takes the dubious distinction of having the worst traffic and road network.

The thing is is that that the 402 was suppose to help relieve the situation. When it was planned there was no intention of having it go south from Strathroy to the 410 but rather serve the north end of the city and merge up with the 403 at Woodstock by going north of Ingersol. That was until the Labbatt family and other wealthy Londoners applied political pressure to have it avoid the tony North End and from going near their properties and the rest is history. Now it can take as long to get from Masonville in the north to the 401 as it can from the 401/Wellington to Kitchener.

The 401 from London to Woodstock not only due to the traffic but also the VERY high level of transport traffic. It makes the stretch very dangerous. Much of that traffic {27,000 vehicle a day} comes in from the 402 which has heavy transport traffic as well as it leads to to the US crossing at Sarnia which is a faster route that Windsor and is preferred by transports for anything coming from further west as it bypasses Detroit. Due to the route of the 402 and the fact that it does not come very close to the city from the west, it is also relatively useless for commuter traffic of Strathroy which is increasingly becoming a commuter town of 14,000.

The city is in dire need of the original 402 expansion across the north end to Woodstock or even Kitchener to relieve the 401 and offer Londoners a way to get to Toronto where half the trip isn't spent just getting to the 401. Alas, London isn't in the Golden Horshoe so it will be , as usual, it will be put on the back burner.

The 402 is a classic example of what happens when politics gets in the way of sound highway planning.

 

[BurlOak]

The situation in London is deplorable and will only get worse. As a native Londoner I know the terrible traffic situation in the city. I have been to every major city in the country and London far and away takes the dubious distinction of having the worst traffic and road network.

A freeway would be nice from 402 Strathroy, north of London, to New Hanburg then following #7/8 to Kitchener then new #7 to Guelph - maybe even to highway 400 north of Major Mac. There would be north-south connector highways at East London, near Woodstock, Kitchener (existing hwy 8), Guelph (Hwy 6 Hanlon as freeway), Milton (joining 401/407 interchange) and highway 410.

A little sad that the work in London has been postponed yet again but I'd like to see the west side rebuilt soon. The weaving at the Highway 4 interchange is likely the worst in the province (if not the country) and the new overpass/interchange at Wonderland is more than warranted. Perhaps these will still be on track to start/finish in 2015/2016 with all the work done 'beyond 2017' (Highbury Expressway reconfiguration, bridge replacements at Westminster overpass and Pond Mills and CNR underpasses, VMP expansion, 8 lane widening from Wellington to Highbury).

Are they planning on turning Highbury from a near freeway to an arterial or collector road. I think the East London link should be at the airport (either Verterans Memorial Parkway (airport road) or on the east side of the airport.

 

[Mulder]

I really want to see the Highway 62 interchange convered from a full cloverleaf. I wonder if the reason it hasn't yet is because of the congestion southbound (where Highway 62 becomes known as North Front Street) and the close traffic signal at Bell Blvd. A reverse "B" parclo might make sense here (two exits, one entrance), at least for eastbound traffic, a regular "A" parclo to Highway 401 westbound.

The Highway 37 interchange was recently rebuilt to improve the ramps (37 also used to be a full cloverleaf) and increased slightly the distance between the 62 and 37 exits.

It is because the lights are too close. Don't expect that configuration to change anytime soon. The grading there makes things difficult and expensive. If anything it'll change once Sydney street gets widened and maybe an Interchange could go there to relieve congestion on North Front.

As for your Highway 37 comment. You are really dating yourself if talking about Highway 37 used to be a full cloverleaf. I lived in Belleville for almost 20 years and the configuration has only changed once, and that was for construction staging for the Moria River bridge.

As far as I know, the 37 Bridge has about 10-15 years left in it. I would rather see a realignment of the Highway going over the 401. Moving the interchange east a bit. And also realigning 37, with a new bridge over the Moira right beside Wal-mart. Basically there would be a T intersection right where the nursing home is now. Along with another parclo interchange about 100m further south. That, is the safest option by far.

 

[ShonTron]

It is because the lights are too close. Don't expect that configuration to change anytime soon. The grading there makes things difficult and expensive. If anything it'll change once Sydney street gets widened and maybe an Interchange could go there to relieve congestion on North Front.

That figures. I hate getting back onto the 401 to Toronto from Belleville using that ramp. That and Highway 4 near St. Thomas are the only full cloverleafs left on the 401. I'd like to see at least a partial (eastbound from 401 and to westbound 401) interchange there to relieve the 401/North Front/Bell Blvd mess.

(There used to be full cloverleafs at Highway 126, Highway 73, Highway 19, a strange partial at Highway 59, Highway 2 Woodstock, Highway 8, Highway 24, Highway 25 Highway 10, Highway 400 (original configuration, with ramps south closed), Avenue Road, Yonge Street, Kennedy Road, Highway 48, and Highway 37.)

Apart from those two on the 400 (and the near-complete cloverleaf at Highway 27 and Dixon Road), the other cloverleafs in Ontario all completely gone (others included Highway 11 at 12 North in Orillia, 400 at Highways 7 and 88, QEW at Hurontario and Thorold Stone Road).

As for your Highway 37 comment. You are really dating yourself if talking about Highway 37 used to be a full cloverleaf. I lived in Belleville for almost 20 years and the configuration has only changed once, and that was for construction staging for the Moria River bridge.

As far as I know, the 37 Bridge has about 10-15 years left in it. I would rather see a realignment of the Highway going over the 401. Moving the interchange east a bit. And also realigning 37, with a new bridge over the Moira right beside Wal-mart. Basically there would be a T intersection right where the nursing home is now. Along with another parclo interchange about 100m further south. That, is the safest option by far.

I know it was in the 1980s when 37 was converted from a cloverleaf. But the ramps were rebuilt again in the last few years, the ramp to/from westbound 401 is a lot better now.

Oh, and I know Belleville enough to know it's Sidney Street!

 

[UWGrad09]

The new interchange at Laird Rd on the Hanlon Expressway (Highway 6) in Guelph was opened to traffic today. Here's some information on it:
http://guelph.ca/2013/11/access-han...lon-expressway-clair-road-cooper-drive-closed

I didn't get a chance to get any photos today but will try to post some this week

 

[Haljackey]

A freeway would be nice from 402 Strathroy, north of London, to New Hanburg then following #7/8 to Kitchener then new #7 to Guelph - maybe even to highway 400 north of Major Mac. There would be north-south connector highways at East London, near Woodstock, Kitchener (existing hwy 8), Guelph (Hwy 6 Hanlon as freeway), Milton (joining 401/407 interchange) and highway 410.



Are they planning on turning Highbury from a near freeway to an arterial or collector road. I think the East London link should be at the airport (either Verterans Memorial Parkway (airport road) or on the east side of the airport.

Highbury will remain a grade-seperated expressway (not a freeway) from just north of the 401 to Hamilton Road. At the 401 and south of it, it will remain an at-gade expressway.

The reconfiguration will help 'elongate' the ramps, allowing for higher speeds and heavy trucks (those with two full trailers, for example [also known as road trains]). It will also see a new 6 lane overpass, as trucks have a hard time making a tight turn on the existing 4 lane structure. It will also enable the 401 to be widened, as it barely squeezes below the bridge. Before the 401 was 6-laned, this was a cloverleaf.

The 401/VMP interchange will go from a free-flowing trumpet interchange (no stoplights) to a parclo interchange (two stoplights), effectively killing any hopes of the VMP of becoming a freeway. Many question the need to extend this route south of the 401 as it is just farmland and there are several alternatives.

 

[yyzhyd]

The 427 extension to Major MacKenzie was dependent on the passing of this year's Budget.
Since the budget has indeed passed, anyone know what the timetable is for construction to begin on the extension?
Original plan had been 2016/17 but I'm hoping that it is brought forward now.

 

[MisterF]

I drive the Cobourg - Ottawa route frequently, and take VIA as well. 6 lanes on the 401 is required now. East of Interstate 81 is the only stretch where 4 lanes is adequate. I would applaud more investment into intercity rail since it would get more people out of airplanes and their personal cars. However, it will not affect the truck traffic nor the local use of the 401 east of Toronto.

I used to live in Cobourg, I'm no stranger to that section of highway. Ontario has a curious habit of putting all its infrastructure eggs in one basket. We build one really big piece of infrastructure rather than multiple smaller ones. There's only one freeway through our portion of the Windsor-Quebec corridor while Quebec has two, but ours is bigger and busier. Toronto relies entirely too much on a single subway line, but it uses massive trains by most cities' standards. It's not really healthy since there's no redundancy in the system. One accident or closure and everything grinds to a halt. If instead of expanding the 401 to six lanes we upgraded the Highway 7 corridor to an expressway, most of the traffic going to Ottawa would take that route instead and volumes on the 401 would drop significantly. It's worth noting that daily volumes on the 401 drop from 32,000 to 19,000 at the 416 interchange - that's a lot of traffic heading towards Ottawa that would be diverted onto a 4 lane Highway 7.

But our money would be even better spent building a decent rail system. Even something as barebones as the old ViaFast proposal would take an hour off the trip to Montreal, which would make a lot more people choose the train. We need to stop being so reliant on highways. We all like the freedom of driving but let's face it, highways are too inefficient and unsafe to be the main way we move people between cities...especially in the winter. That becomes painfully obvious on a day like today with the 400 being closed from a little bit of snow.