Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[dunkalunk]

I am in agreement with upgrading 6 to a full-fledged controlled-access highway at least from Highway 24 in the north to the QEW in the south although I think it ought to be done in stages starting with installing median barriers

 

[gweed123]

I am in agreement with upgrading 6 to a full-fledged controlled-access highway at least from Highway 24 in the north to the QEW in the south although I think it ought to be done in stages starting with installing median barriers

I think that any upgraded Highway 6 should be built along a new alignment further west of the existing one, not as an upgrade to the current one. And I agree that they may be able to get away with doing a Hanlon-like design for part of it, but I think by and large it needs to be controlled access.

And btw, Highway 6 never meets the QEW, I think you're thinking of Highway 403. The QEW and 403 split in Burlington, with the 403 going west and the QEW going south.

The first section that needs to be done is a by-pass of the 2 lane section of 6 just south of the 401. That's the most pressing concern.

 

[Transportfan]

The 403 runs north-south from Eastgate all the way north to the 401, turning into the 410. Now if 403 became 410 at Eastgate, you might have a point.

The 403 runs north-south to make a connection with the 401 which is a more obvious endpoint for the highway. It's no big deal for a freeway to run "off-track" for such a short distance and should hardly confuse anyone.

Even if the Missisauga section of the 403 had been made the 410 it wouldn't have been that big a deal as the 403 heads southwest-northeast and so the highway is still headed in a southerly direction anyways.

Personally, I think the Mississauga section of 403 section should have been given its own number as it now bears no real relationship to the Woodstock-Burlington segment.

 

[Paolo]

or they could have kept the entire highway including the western 407 segment called the 403. that would have made sense but in this province, nothing makes sense

the part that goes north south is ok to keep it as 410, as its parallel to the former highway 10 so it should keep the name

 

[Markster]

The first section that needs to be done is a by-pass of the 2 lane section of 6 just south of the 401. That's the most pressing concern.

The Morriston bypass is on the books for the widening of the 401.

 

[nfitz]

The 403 runs north-south to make a connection with the 401 which is a more obvious endpoint for the highway. It's no big deal for a freeway to run "off-track" for such a short distance and should hardly confuse anyone.

I dont' see any reason why a 90-degree turn would confuse anyone. We have highways that do complete circles and retain the same number (M25). We have highways that do 90-degree turns and retain the same number (M6). We have highways that do 180-degree turns and retain the same number (QEW).

The 403 has many turns no ... from the north, it starts off going south ... turns west at Cawthra. Turns south near 9th Line. Turns west again at the QEW and continues in a relatively straight line to the 401 east of London. Not sure how adding a simple straight leg onto the end, instead of the 410, is more confusing than all the weirdness that is already does.

If you want to renumber one of the two legs for simplicity, then clearly you'd retain the 403 leg in the west as 403, and renumber the east leg as 410 - as per the MTO's earlier proposal.

 

[BurlOak]

The whole 403 naming thing is just a mess in my opinion. I just hope that in some future plans it gets sorted out somehow, either by renaming existing sections, or by adding new sections of other highways (the 407 West) to make the naming make sense. Because it's pretty clear that the 403 is never going further east of where it is now, and the 410 is never going further south from where it is now (it was supposed to go all the way down to the QEW).

The 403 naming now is going to be almost as bad as what Highway 7/407 is going to be 10-15 years from now. The highway is basically going to have 3 distinct 4+ lane segments in it, with only one of which actually named 407 (the other 2 being between K-W & Guelph, and Carleton Place & Ottawa).

In terms of the Western GTA though, I think the biggest expressway priority should be completing what would become Highway 406 (I want the name of the current 406 in Welland changed to something else, because that makes no sense at all why it's named 406 when Highway 6 is over 40km away from it). From the Highway 407/406 interchange in Guelph, through an upgraded Hanlon Parkway, through the 401, and then down to the 403. Highway 6 between Hamilton and the 401 is crazy busy, and is only going to get busier.

When hockey players got traded, some just double there digits. Ken Hodge switched from 8 to 88.

1. Could the K-W to Guelph and Ottawa area be called 477 ?
2. Can the province use the 407 title for these two stretches, or legally does 407 ETR own the number. It not be so confusing if the province wanted these to be tolled as well (even if the toll revenue went to province and not the private company?
3. Is there any plan for a highway 6 freeway from Hamilton 403 to 401. I think there was something (not sure if freeway) to connect from the bottom of 6N to highway 6 near Freelton?
4. How about calling highway 11 from Gravenhurst to North Bay as 411?
5. Where did Highway 409 get its name - it is just as far from highway 9 as 406 is from highway 6.

 

[nfitz]

5. Where did Highway 409 get its name - it is just as far from highway 9 as 406 is from highway 6.

Presumably it was the next available number .... with 400, 401, 402, 403, 404, 405, 406, 407, and 408 already being spoken for. Numbers were originally just consecutive when they were planned ... it was only later on they started with 416, 417, 427 ... not sure where the heck 420 came from. I've heard there was supposed to be a 408, but not sure what it was.

 

[ShonTron]

Highway 420 was merely a branch of the QEW until the 1970s, when it got its own number, 420, as it parallels Lundy's Lane, formerly Highway 20.

Highway 11 is not up to 400-series standards for most of the way north of Barrie. Only the first 2 kilometres from the 400 cut-off, about 6-7 kilometres on the Orillia bypass, and between Bracebridge and Burk's Falls, and again for the last 10 kilometres to Highway 17 in North Bay. The RIRO expressway sections through Oro-Medonte ('Gasoline Alley') and Severn Townships are not 400-standard, and there are several at-grade intersections even where Highway 11 was twinned near Gravenhurst and between Powassan and Callander.

The MTO generally does not give 400-series numbers to freeway sections of longer highways, hence Highway 7/8 in KW, Highway 7 to Carleton Place, Highway 58 in Thorold, and Highway 115 (which has a RIRO section not up to 400-standards). But it will give 400-series numbers to non-freeways intended for upgrading, such as Highway 410 in the 1980s and Highway 406 today.

 

[gweed123]

When hockey players got traded, some just double there digits. Ken Hodge switched from 8 to 88.

1. Could the K-W to Guelph and Ottawa area be called 477 ?
2. Can the province use the 407 title for these two stretches, or legally does 407 ETR own the number. It not be so confusing if the province wanted these to be tolled as well (even if the toll revenue went to province and not the private company?
3. Is there any plan for a highway 6 freeway from Hamilton 403 to 401. I think there was something (not sure if freeway) to connect from the bottom of 6N to highway 6 near Freelton?
4. How about calling highway 11 from Gravenhurst to North Bay as 411?
5. Where did Highway 409 get its name - it is just as far from highway 9 as 406 is from highway 6.

Personally I would just stick with 407 for all of the segments. I wouldn't think that the corporation that owns the 407 ETR would own the rights to "King's Highway 407".

And yes, as Markster mentioned the Morriston bypass will be the first segment of what should become the 406 (actually 2nd segment, because the Hanlon is technically the first).

There are sections of Highway 11 up to North Bay that still aren't twinned yet. And even sections that are twinned, they still have at-grade intersections. Keeping that as Highway 11 makes sense, although having said that Highway 406 currently has some at-grade intersections on it, and the 427 North did too for a long time.

Presumably it was the next available number .... with 400, 401, 402, 403, 404, 405, 406, 407, and 408 already being spoken for. Numbers were originally just consecutive when they were planned ... it was only later on they started with 416, 417, 427 ... not sure where the heck 420 came from. I've heard there was supposed to be a 408, but not sure what it was.

Yeah, personally I would have just rather they took whatever non-400 series route they were replacing and just added a 4 in front of it. The 400 would have been the 411, the 401 would have been the 402, and so on and so on. Stick to whatever route you're replacing as much as possible.

And I think they should rename the current Highway 406 to Highway 436, that way it at least keeps the 4 and the 6.

I would also think that "408" is reserved for whenever they finally decide to rename Highway 8 through Kitchener as 408. I would think at the same time that they bring in Highway 407 to connect to Guelph would be a good idea.

 

[Dan416]

Or they could just completely get rid of the King's Highway numbers and rename all the 400-series to something more international.

Rename Highway 401 to 1 or O-1 or M1, and make the rest of the numbers more logical.

 

[gweed123]

Or they could just completely get rid of the King's Highway numbers and rename all the 400-series to something more international.

Rename Highway 401 to 1 or O-1 or M1, and make the rest of the numbers more logical.

If this were to be done, I'd like to see it done Canada-wide, like the US Interstate system. Trans-Canada routes would used C1 to C9, and other expressways would use C10 to C99.

 

[nfitz]

I'm always somewhat surprised that there seems to be more interest in discussing the highway numbering, than the highways themselves.

 

[gweed123]

I'm always somewhat surprised that there seems to be more interest in discussing the highway numbering, than the highways themselves.

I'm just like that, I'm all about consistency, categorization, and labelling, haha. I love the methodology and structure of the numbering of the US Interstate System. In a lot of ways it's like Manhattan's grid system: once you know how the system is numbered, finding your way is relatively consistent across the entire system. You know that if you're on I-481, that you're eventually going to end up back on I-81.

I guess that also stems from the fact that there aren't that many highways left to be built, at least within urban areas. Most of the new highways are going to be connecting city to city (like the 407 between Kitchener and Guelph, or the 406 connecting Guelph and Hamilton). We aren't going to be talking about the Midtown Expressway anytime soon.

The most controversial highway proposal even remotely on the books right now is the Mid-Penninsula Highway, which is also an inter-city expressway.

This is very different from talk of transit lines, where it's a free-for-all.

 

[Haljackey]

If this were to be done, I'd like to see it done Canada-wide, like the US Interstate system. Trans-Canada routes would used C1 to C9, and other expressways would use C10 to C99.

The problem is in the USA the federal government is responsible for the Interstate / US Highway system.

In Canada, the provinces are responsible. Thus a numbering system like the USA won't happen, with the exception of the Trans-Canada highways which are labeled TCH... good enough for me.