Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[amnesiajune]

Here's some new photos from the Highway 404/Highway 7 Interchange Improvements by York Region, Opening late 2018

Aerial Norman Bethune Avenue And Aristotle Avenue Construction:
View attachment 140240

Completed Realigned Ramp:
View attachment 140241

Retaining Wall Construction Aristotle Avenue:
View attachment 140243

Construction Area Map:
View attachment 140242

These new streets opened up last night/this morning. Aristotle Avenue is basically an extension of the 404 off-ramp. I think you can turn right from Westbound Highway 7, but you can't turn left from Eastbound. And similarly you can turn right coming southbound, but not left.

 

[Neutrino]

I love that they named a street after Aristotle.

 

[Leo_Chan]

Here's the timelapse and the media release:

 

[Leo_Chan]

I just had a thought about what tolling Highway 401 would do. There's the obvious result of people not willing to pay the tolls and will cause neighbouring roads to increase in traffic (Sheppard, Ellesmere, Wilson, etc.), but it may also cause people who are willing to pay the tolls to be less opposed to tolls, which means taking Highway 407 as well. As long as 401 tolls are lower than 407 tolls, some people may see paying a little bit extra for a quicker trip, in addition to the quicker trip provide by tolling the 401, is worth it. Would love to know if my thinking makes sense.

A side note, do midblock crossing of highways belong in this thread?

 

[amnesiajune]

I just had a thought about what tolling Highway 401 would do. There's the obvious result of people not willing to pay the tolls and will cause neighbouring roads to increase in traffic (Sheppard, Ellesmere, Wilson, etc.), but it may also cause people who are willing to pay the tolls to be less opposed to tolls, which means taking Highway 407 as well. As long as 401 tolls are lower than 407 tolls, some people may see paying a little bit extra for a quicker trip, in addition to the quicker trip provide by tolling the 401, is worth it. Would love to know if my thinking makes sense.

The problem is that even a tiny decrease in the 401's traffic would overwhelm city streets. Even if your tolling scheme kept 80-90% of traffic on the 401, the nearby arteries would end up with double the number of cars.

Tolling freeways within cities isn't a practical solution to any problem. If anything it's just creates more of them. The city should be looking at a fee for driving into downtown on any road if they want to use road tolls as a way to solve traffic problems and encourage transit use.

 

[Neutrino]

The problem is that even a tiny decrease in the 401's traffic would overwhelm city streets. Even if your tolling scheme kept 80-90% of traffic on the 401, the nearby arteries would end up with double the number of cars.

Tolling freeways within cities isn't a practical solution to any problem. If anything it's just creates more of them. The city should be looking at a fee for driving into downtown on any road if they want to use road tolls as a way to solve traffic problems and encourage transit use.

That's downtown, but what about improving transit and relieving congestion in suburban areas?

 

[amnesiajune]

That's downtown, but what about improving transit and relieving congestion in suburban areas?

Tolling the 401 won't do anything to improve transit and it'll make congestion extremely worse. Use the money from a congestion charge to improve transit, and once there's good-quality transit options available at a reasonable people will start to use them.

The reason why so many people drive in this city (including me) is that transit is much slower, less convenient and often just as expensive as driving if you're going anywhere other than downtown. Transit will never beat the convenience of being able to drive anywhere on-demand, but if there were faster options and fares weren't so high (especially for people who live in Toronto and work in the 905, or vice-versa) a lot of people would use it.

 

[Neutrino]

The reason why so many people drive in this city (including me) is that transit is much slower, less convenient and often just as expensive as driving if you're going anywhere other than downtown. Transit will never beat the convenience of being able to drive anywhere on-demand, but if there were faster options and fares weren't so high (especially for people who live in Toronto and work in the 905, or vice-versa) a lot of people would use it.

That's my situation as well. My commute to work takes 30 minutes longer in the morning than driving. Afternoon commute, however, is about the same.

 

[steveintoronto]

The problem is that even a tiny decrease in the 401's traffic would overwhelm city streets. Even if your tolling scheme kept 80-90% of traffic on the 401, the nearby arteries would end up with double the number of cars.

Tolling freeways within cities isn't a practical solution to any problem. If anything it's just creates more of them. The city should be looking at a fee for driving into downtown on any road if they want to use road tolls as a way to solve traffic problems and encourage transit use.

And the Province, run by Ford Inc, would block any fee for any road. If Wynne wouldn't allow it, why would Ford?

 

[nfitz]

And the Province, run by Ford Inc, would block any fee for any road. If Wynne wouldn't allow it, why would Ford?

Perhaps there's a way that it could be made worth Ford's while to let Toronto toll highways.

Perhaps they could use actual toll booths, and everyone has to stop and pick up a Deco-printed NY-Thruway-like ticket?

 

[pstogios]

The problem is that even a tiny decrease in the 401's traffic would overwhelm city streets. Even if your tolling scheme kept 80-90% of traffic on the 401, the nearby arteries would end up with double the number of cars.

Tolling freeways within cities isn't a practical solution to any problem. If anything it's just creates more of them. The city should be looking at a fee for driving into downtown on any road if they want to use road tolls as a way to solve traffic problems and encourage transit use.

Those commuters that use the 401 to get from, say, 427 all the way until DVP will NOT use city streets instead to get around a 401 toll. The money savings would be easily negated by the huge increase in their commute time if they use city streets. These people will be essentially forced to pay the toll, or stop commuting.

 

[amnesiajune]

Those commuters that use the 401 to get from, say, 427 all the way until DVP will NOT use city streets instead to get around a 401 toll. The money savings would be easily negated by the huge increase in their commute time if they use city streets. These people will be essentially forced to pay the toll, or stop commuting.

A lot of people only use the 401 to travel for two or three exists, and just moving some of them onto city streets would be a nightmare for traffic congestion.

 

[Leo_Chan]

A lot of people only use the 401 to travel for two or three exists, and just moving some of them onto city streets would be a nightmare for traffic congestion.

Should this behaviour even be encouraged, though I do it myself? But the people I talk to say they usually stay on the parallel streets instead of going up onto the highways.

Also, assuming your destination is directly in between two exits, do you exit early and use the streets to go to you destination or exit late and use streets to go back towards your destination?

 

[BurlOak]

In the 1950's to early 2000's, people were encouraged to live near a freeway and commute by car to work. Those without a freeway to downtown (i.e. Along Yonge and along the Spadina corridor (since the freeway was not built), were given excellent subway access.
Now the suggestion is to punish those who did what planners wanted, even though there is no great rapid transit alternative (i.e. 404, NE Scarborough, NW Etobicoke). Those who live along the subway lines and chose to drive are not punished at all.

 

[Leo_Chan]

In the 1950's to early 2000's, people were encouraged to live near a freeway and commute by car to work. Those without a freeway to downtown (i.e. Along Yonge and along the Spadina corridor (since the freeway was not built), were given excellent subway access.
Now the suggestion is to punish those who did what planners wanted, even though there is no great rapid transit alternative (i.e. 404, NE Scarborough, NW Etobicoke). Those who live along the subway lines and chose to drive are not punished at all.

Go Transit should serve all highways with "local" and express services.