Roads: Ontario/GTA Highways Discussion

[gweed123]

417: Ottawa: Expansion to a consistent 8-lane cross section from Kanata to the Split (Ottawa Road 174) is about the best that can be done at a reasonable cost (limited right-of-way)

Already happening. The bridges that were recently replaced at Island Park Dr, Carling Ave, and Clyde Ave are spans that can accomodate 4 lanes instead of 3. (Side note: for anyone who hasn't seen the replacements, it's quite an engineering feat. The bridges were all replaced in about 17 hours. The spans were built adjacent to the highway, and then over the course of 1 weekend the highway was shut down, the old spans were wheeled out, and the new spans were wheeled in. The timelapse video of it is pretty impressive.)

The 417 between Nicholas St and the Split is also to be widened, open in 2015. This was accelerated because the lanes will initially be used as HOV lanes/buses only lanes while the Transitway is shut down for the upgrade to LRT.

 

[Kitsune]

Considering the deficit Ontario is facing, some of these projects are pretty ambitious.

My somewhat smaller ideas:
69/400: Finish the four lane section being constructed near highway 637 - it's due to open in 2012. Leave the rest of highway 69 intact for now, as the most dangerous/congested parts of 69 have been bypassed (Nobel and the S-curve at 637). Except for Point-au-Baril, there are almost no communities directly on 69 and traffic volumes do not warrant immediate construction.

wha? Have you ever drove the highway? Its bumper to bumper most of the time up to Sudbury.... and the entire thing will be four laned upto Sudbury by 2017 at the latest. The EA's and route planning are already done and currently property acquisition is underway for some sections, and actual construction is underway for other sections. The S curve bypass is actually the new alignment opened early too. Another note: withe the 400 being four laned up to Sudbury, another section of highway 17 is going to be 400-ized.... the entire length of highway 17 in Sudbury will be upgraded to a 400 series highway... but it just wont be called highway 417. There is also some preliminary planning about 400-izing the entire 17 between la soo and Sudbury.

 

[nfitz]

wha? Have you ever drove the highway?

Yes!

Its bumper to bumper most of the time up to Sudbury

??? Have you ever driven it? Perhaps you can point these bumper-to-bumper sections out on Google Streetview.

 

[Kitsune]

Yes!

??? Have you ever driven it? Perhaps you can point these bumper-to-bumper sections out on Google Streetview.

streetview? Honestly? I go up there almost every long weekend... its horrible during the summer... and downright deadly during the winter.

 

[nfitz]

streetview? Honestly? I go up there almost every long weekend... its horrible during the summer... and downright deadly during the winter.

Wall to wall traffic at the French River? Are we talking about the same highway?

 

[Josef]

Does anyone know when the 427 north will be further stretched north beyond Zenway? It needs to at least reach Mayfield.

 

[3.0L V6]

I live in Sudbury, so I've driven highway 69 numerous times. It could use a few more passing lanes here and there, but it's relatively straight, has no major grades and aside from Point-Au-Baril, there's no places where the speed limit drops below 90km/h or runs into built-up areas.

The average annual daily traffic count is below 10,000 (the threshold for consideration of a 400-series highway) and is projected to remain so until after 2024, as per the MTO. Considering the cost to construct the highway is pegged at roughly $3 billion and the province is running a deficit in the $15 billion region, I think that a go-slow approach with regards to construction would be a good idea.

The worst part about highway 69 is the drivers, sadly. One of the most recent fatalities on highway 69 was on the new four-lane section, while the last time I saw a fatal accident occur this year driving to Kitchener was on the 400 just south of Parry Sound.

 

[Kitsune]

http://www.highway69.ca .... its not slow going, its full steam ahead.

 

[nfitz]

http://www.highway69.ca .... its not slow going, its full steam ahead.

It is ... but it remains a huge waste of Ontario spending. It boggles the mind how much infrastructure Northern Ontario gets in comparison to what is collected in revenue ... about time the GTA separated.

 

[Kitsune]

It is ... but it remains a huge waste of Ontario spending. It boggles the mind how much infrastructure Northern Ontario gets in comparison to what is collected in revenue ... about time the GTA separated.

And it boggles my mind the way ontario keeps all the property taxes from the mines to themselves... and doesnt really share it with the municipalities either. I think its about time Northern Ontario separates.

 

[GenerationW]

You're both being foolish, no one is separating.

 

[MisterF]

And it boggles my mind the way ontario keeps all the property taxes from the mines to themselves... and doesnt really share it with the municipalities either. I think its about time Northern Ontario separates.

When it comes to highway spending Northern Ontario gets gets several times more than Southern Ontario per capita. Mines don't account for as much of the economy as you think. We have a service based economy where resources like mining play a small role. Larger than most other industrialized countries, but still small. The resource economy of the north is subsidized by the service-based economy of the south. That's the way it is in basically every rich country - the cities generate most of the wealth and subsidize the hinterland.

Anyway, the 400 extension to Sudbury isn't to relieve traffic or improve safety since there are dozens of other roads that are more crowded. It's to stimulate the economy of the north. I don't see any problem with that. I do think that the highway being built to the same standard as Southern Ontario highways is a little wasteful though. The right of way and the rock cuts in that area could be half the width and still be perfectly safe, which would reduce costs significantly.

 

[nfitz]

And it boggles my mind the way ontario keeps all the property taxes from the mines to themselves... and doesnt really share it with the municipalities either. I think its about time Northern Ontario separates.

Do the property taxes from mines even meet the cost MOE is bearing to clean-up abandoned mines? How much is Deloro costing taxpayers (which I guess is more southern Ontario than northern).

 

[Transportfan]

I do think that the highway being built to the same standard as Southern Ontario highways is a little wasteful though. The right of way and the rock cuts in that area could be half the width and still be perfectly safe, which would reduce costs significantly.

And they should build diamond interchanges instead of parclos for the low traffic volumes.

 

[gweed123]

When it comes to highway spending Northern Ontario gets gets several times more than Southern Ontario per capita. Mines don't account for as much of the economy as you think. We have a service based economy where resources like mining play a small role. Larger than most other industrialized countries, but still small. The resource economy of the north is subsidized by the service-based economy of the south. That's the way it is in basically every rich country - the cities generate most of the wealth and subsidize the hinterland.

Anyway, the 400 extension to Sudbury isn't to relieve traffic or improve safety since there are dozens of other roads that are more crowded. It's to stimulate the economy of the north. I don't see any problem with that. I do think that the highway being built to the same standard as Southern Ontario highways is a little wasteful though. The right of way and the rock cuts in that area could be half the width and still be perfectly safe, which would reduce costs significantly.

I wonder why they don't do more highways in Ontario like they have done with Highway 1 through the prairies. 4 lane divided highway, but at-grade intersections. A lot of US State highways are like that as well. You still get the 4 lanes and such, but don't have the added expense of full interchanges. Nothing is stopping them from taking a couple intersections here and there (ones with high traffic volumes) and grade-separating them.

Personally, I see this as a very good solution for Highway 7 between Peterborough and Carleton Place, and some of the more northern sections of Highway 17. Maybe Highway 15 as well, although I'm not sure the traffic volumes warrant it right now.