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Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413

afransen said:
Remember that the promise is completely meaningless. There is no moving money from 413 to teachers pay. It is just one big budget. All they are saying here is that they don't support this project and they do support teacher pay increases.
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With great respect, perhaps you could at least read the article before commenting on it.

The 'investment' would not go to the operating budget of the Ministry of Education at all.

The commitment is entirely to invest in school buildings.

From the article:

Liberal Leader Steven Del Duca has revealed plans to redirect the $6 to $10 billion in capital costs to the education sector building schools and new child-care spaces.

***

The party said the money would be spent on: upgraded heating, ventilation and air conditioning; boilers and plumbing; high-speed broadband.
 
Sure. The point stands that it is mostly a non sequitur to say they won't fund this project but they will fund another, the only loose connection being that Ontario doesn't have infinite fiscal capacity.
 
turini2 said:
Several of us have just done a substantial job rewriting the GTA West wikipedia article.. looks much better than before!
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Nice article but i think some things should be added,

-Most of the municipalities the proposed highway is passing through supported the highway from the getgo, and only recently did they change their support for it(i personally believe they still support it behind closed doors).

-The local road network in Caledon south of King is quite conjested with dumptrucks and truck trailer's.

-Fords platform during the election had the GTA West highway.

Just some thoughts I would share.
 
CaskoChan said:
Nice article but i think some things should be added,

-Most of the municipalities the proposed highway is passing through supported the highway from the getgo, and only recently did they change their support for it(i personally believe they still support it behind closed doors).

-The local road network in Caledon south of King is quite conjested with dumptrucks and truck trailer's.

-Fords platform during the election had the GTA West highway.

Just some thoughts I would share.
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The way wikipedia works is you need to cite sources for statements of fact. The second point I imagine doesn't have citations available. I don't see Ford's platform promise being all that relevant.
 
CaskoChan said:
Nice article but i think some things should be added,

-Most of the municipalities the proposed highway is passing through supported the highway from the getgo, and only recently did they change their support for it(i personally believe they still support it behind closed doors).

-The local road network in Caledon south of King is quite conjested with dumptrucks and truck trailer's.

-Fords platform during the election had the GTA West highway.

Just some thoughts I would share.
Click to expand...

Patrick Brown's platform supported GTA West as well. It was only after he was kicked out of the PC caucas that he reversed his opinion. Agree with Brown's position or not, I suspect his opposition to GTA West has more to do with spite than it does with actual sound planning.

Brampton's new position as being anti-highway is kind of laughable. They have always been very vocal in their support of GTA West, and they opposed the Hurontario LRT through most of their borders. Brampton has no plan to really divert any meaninful traffic onto transit, yet all of a sudden they are opposing the transportation means that their city is built around (and continues to be built around).

Brown's urban boulevard proposal in lieu of GTA West was a totally unrealistic plan as well.
 
Brampton has done a great job growing nothing into something.

In 2016, transit usage was just shy of 14% of trips to work in Brampton.

What meaningful way could they get to 20 or 25 or 30?
 
sonysnob said:
Brampton has done a great job growing nothing into something.
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They have.

sonysnob said:
What meaningful way could they get to 20 or 25 or 30?
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1) Hurontario LRT, extended at least to DT Brampton, ideally beyond.

2) Queen Street East BRT

3) Steeles BRT

4) 24-hour services

5) Greater frequency

6) Increased walkability and cycleability

7) On-going improvements in service frequency.

8) Better bus stops (heated shelters, outdoor seats, streetscape, digital next bus screen etc.)

9) Complimented by at least, hourly, 2-way all-day GO service (including peak periods) on the GO K-W corridor. + 15 minute or better service at least to Bramalea, but ideally to Mt. Pleasant.; 10 minute or better peak frequencies; well amenitized GO Stations with one-site food retail and grocery, allowing people to pick up their dinner on the way home!
 
^ Yeah, I don't think that's going to do it. Brampton is full of single family dwellings that are backlotted from the major streets. The largest employment centres in Brampton are low desnity industrial areas along the Mississauga border. Heated bus shelters only grow the transit modal share by 10% in internet fantasy land.
 
sonysnob said:
Patrick Brown's platform supported GTA West as well. It was only after he was kicked out of the PC caucas [sic] that he reversed his opinion. Agree with Brown's position or not, I suspect his opposition to GTA West has more to do with spite than it does with actual sound planning.

Brampton's new position as being anti-highway is kind of laughable. They have always been very vocal in their support of GTA West, and they opposed the Hurontario LRT through most of their borders. Brampton has no plan to really divert any meaninful [sic] traffic onto transit, yet all of a sudden they are opposing the transportation means that their city is built around (and continues to be built around).

Brown's urban boulevard proposal in lieu of GTA West was a totally unrealistic plan as well.
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"They opposed the Hurontario LRT through most of their borders" - actually, that was the last term of Brampton Council (even then, the die-hards against Main argued they supported LRT they just wanted it to use another alignment. Of course that had the effect of killing in the short to medium term the plan on the table with funding). Even then it was only a 6-5 vote against. The current term of Council (with Brown as mayor) voted 11-0 in December 2018 to restore the Main Street LRT corridor and it's being studied. See here.
 
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sonysnob said:
^ Yeah, I don't think that's going to do it. Brampton is full of single family dwellings that are backlotted from the major streets. The largest employment centres in Brampton are low desnity industrial areas along the Mississauga border. Heated bus shelters only grow the transit modal share by 10% in internet fantasy land.
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My response and list of actions were considerably longer and more detailed than heated bus shelters.

I don't engage in fantasies.

I engage in thoughtful discussion.

I also do it respectfully; your dismissiveness is not a helpful contribution.
 
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It is engaging in fantasies. Brampton is primarily a city of low density dwellings with single family homes that don't back directly onto arterial streets. The employment centres are the same. The list of improvements you have provided is not going transition a meaningful amount of trips onto transit. Sure, you might get some marginal gains, but not enough that changes behaviour in a meaningful enough way that you can avoid the need for the GTA West corridor, which is what this thread is all about.

And that's what frustrates me about transit enthusiasts. There's this idea that the modal shift is just around the corner.

In the 70s the modal shift was just around the corner with the development of Advanced Light Rail Transit -- didn't happen.

In the 80s the modal shift was just around the corner with the trains developed by the Urban Development Transportation Development Corporation that led to the Scarborough RT -- didn't happen.

In the 2000s the modal shift was just around the corner with Viva Rapidways -- didn't happen.

At what point do we not start paying attention to reality?
 
sonysnob said:
It is engaging in fantasies. Brampton is primarily a city of low density dwellings with single family homes that don't back directly onto arterial streets. The employment centres are the same. The list of improvements you have provided is not going transition a meaningful amount of trips onto transit. Sure, you might get some marginal gains, but not enough that changes behaviour in a meaningful enough way that you can avoid the need for the GTA West corridor, which is what this thread is all about.

And that's what frustrates me about transit enthusiasts. There's this idea that the modal shift is just around the corner.

In the 70s the modal shift was just around the corner with the development of Advanced Light Rail Transit -- didn't happen.

In the 80s the modal shift was just around the corner with the trains developed by the Urban Development Transportation Development Corporation that led to the Scarborough RT -- didn't happen.

In the 2000s the modal shift was just around the corner with Viva Rapidways -- didn't happen.

At what point do we not start paying attention to reality?
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I am not a transit enthusiast; I own a car and drive regularly.

I'm also very knowledgeable on this subject; and I choose my words carefully.

I did not suggest and you did not ask how Brampton was going to get to 50% modal split for Transit.

Which, we can agree would be very challenging in the near or medium terms.

You asked about 20% to 30%; that is do-able, I gave you a blueprint for the 'how'.

That is not a revolution, its an incremental shift of as little as 5% of commuters.

****

Keep in mind, Brampton is set to approve thousands of new residential units in its downtown core; its simply waiting on the removal of DT Brampton from
the floodplain.

The work to do so is now proceeding.
 
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