afransen
Senior Member
What does buying a part of the 407 accomplish? The government receives part of the cash flow from it, but doesn't change the tolling regime.
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DirectionNorth
Active Member
The point being that there are options between buying the whole thing, doing nothing, and building the new highway.
nfitz
Superstar
I'm unclear how traffic has becoming so crowded that that movement is hindered could be the only point at which infrastructure should have been built!
Busy is not congested.
sonysnob
New Member
The idea that the 407 has oodles of capacity is a fallacy as well. There is a bit of capacity, sure, but the core sections of the 407 are probably already at level of service "D" at peak periods in the summer. Too much more traffic is going to make highway operations unstable. Particularly if that traffic is heavy truck traffic. Heavy truck traffic has much more of an effect on highway capacity than normal passenger vehicles, and too much traffic would negate the "express toll bypass" function of the 407. If that's true today in 2021, imagine how true that will be in 2041. Particularly if the region adds a few extra million people and doesn't build any additional highway capacity.
According to Statistics Canada, in 2016 (the most recent census data), about 24% of trips to work in Toronto's CMA (which would be the highest in the GTA) were made on transit. If by some miracle, Toronto could get 30% of trips to work via transit by 2041, we would still need additional roadway capacity just by the number of additional residents added to the region during that 20 year period.
According to Statistics Canada, in 2016 (the most recent census data), about 24% of trips to work in Toronto's CMA (which would be the highest in the GTA) were made on transit. If by some miracle, Toronto could get 30% of trips to work via transit by 2041, we would still need additional roadway capacity just by the number of additional residents added to the region during that 20 year period.
DirectionNorth
Active Member
If we can build transit along major corridors the way we have built freeways around the province in the last 40 years, I think that even 50% is plausible for 2070. We know how awful climate change is, and we know the effects of sprawl on agriculture, and we know the importance of the corridor in the region's ecological health. Given that Toronto has loads of room for densification (can't be bothered to quote the "Problems with condos" post for the third time), I think that building this corridor is an irresponsible move.
sonysnob
New Member
50% isn't realistic. I'm not even sure if 30% is realistic.
I mean, if at the height of the oil crisis in the 1970s we didn't see 50% trips being made on transit, a shiny new bus lane probably isn't going to do it either.
I mean, if at the height of the oil crisis in the 1970s we didn't see 50% trips being made on transit, a shiny new bus lane probably isn't going to do it either.
afransen
Senior Member
What about an Uber Pool style autonomous EV minibus?
sonysnob
New Member
In a post covid world, there is going to be an increasing shift to non-traditional working arrangements where people don't need to be at an office for a set amount of time throughout the day. Since the 1970s there has been a slow, but steady decline in carpool usage in many cities across North America (including Toronto). While, Uber pool vehicles might do well in the Downtown Core, the shift away from traditional working arraignments, makes it seem unlikely that high-tech vanpooling will be much of a meaningful draw for areas outside of the Downtown Core in areas such as Vaughan, or Brampton or Oshawa.
DirectionNorth
Active Member
I was exaggerating. Toronto has a 68% private vehicle modal share. We should be aiming for that to be lowered by at least 10% and closer to 20%.
I think that AV on-demand services actually work in areas with low density, like Vaughan, Brampton, and Oshawa. Traditional transit should be used on high-density corridors, while subways and GO radiate to the inner and outer suburbs, respectively. Separated bus lanes (even if the separation is just lots of the mid-road signs - see below) should be on every major corridor, with buses running long distance, fixed route trips on these corridors, and services in communities run on AVs, bikes, and walking. All bus services would run every 10 minutes or less, and nodes of density (with density like I outlined a few pages ago). Sprawl is an unsustainable lifestyle. Unless you envision all of us living in rural homes (can't remember who came up with that), we will need a return to mid or high density sometime soon.
Fervid Corona
New Member
Ontario Liberals pledge to cancel Hwy 413, build and repair schools instead
As opposition over the controversial Highway 413 continues to grow, Ontario’s Liberal party is making a campaign-style pledge to cancel the project and re-invest the funds into the education system.
toronto.ctvnews.ca
kamira51
Active Member
"style pledge to cancel the project and re-invest the funds into the education system."Ontario Liberals pledge to cancel Hwy 413, build and repair schools instead
As opposition over the controversial Highway 413 continues to grow, Ontario’s Liberal party is making a campaign-style pledge to cancel the project and re-invest the funds into the education system.toronto.ctvnews.ca
What an awful idea, put that money into regional rail for heavens sake.
Allandale25
Senior Member
Based on a topic for discussion in policy consultation the party is running right now, it's possible there was no need to say the money would be put into GO Expansion (aka OnCorr aka RER) because of the below. One could assume that they will proceed with the funding tied to the existing procurement. The RFP winner could be announced before the election and the IO document says financial close would happen after.
afransen
Senior Member
But that won't buy votes from the teacher's union. "invest in education system" is code for pay increases for teachers.
kamira51
Active Member
Teachers needing a pay increase? yeah no thanks.
I hope the NDP have a plan regarding this corridor.
Attachments
afransen
Senior Member
Remember that the promise is completely meaningless. There is no moving money from 413 to teachers pay. It is just one big budget. All they are saying here is that they don't support this project and they do support teacher pay increases.