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Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413

innsertnamehere said:
Why does this as of yet unpriced but likely ~$3-5 billion project "adversely effect provincial finances" but the $30 billion Toronto subway expansion program go without scrutiny? Especially considering this project would very well self-finance itself with tolls?
Click to expand...

I'm not as concerned with the SSE and YNSE, given that there are likely thousands of pages of public documentation on those two projects and potential alternatives. However the EWLRT and the Ontario Line should be heavily scrutinized.

Particularly with the EWLRT: Why was it fully tunnelled, when there was an abundance of space available for at-grade or elevated operations? Is there any technical justification for this project, or was it project a ministerial directive. I think we all know the answer, but these should not be secrets.
 
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TheTigerMaster said:
I'm not as concerned with the SSE and YNSE, given that there are likely thousands of pages of public documentation on those two projects and potential alternatives. However the EWLRT and the Ontario Line should be heavily scrutinized.

Particularly with the EWLRT: Why was it fully tunnelled, when there was an abundance of space available for at-grade or elevated operations? Is there any technical justification for this project, or was it project a ministerial directive. I think we all know the answer, but these should not be secrets.
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The issue is that none of these points are exactly objective. I personally believe that the at grade option for Eglinton West is the absolute worst option they could choose, but that doesn't stop pro LRT city planners from publishing garbage like this:
1614124482707.png

An argument for Eglinton West being underground could be that detailed plan for an underground Eglinton West alignment already existed before Doug Ford got into power, meanwhile a fully elevated alignment did not, so Doug Ford chose the fully underground alignment because its not at grade, and because its the option that's the furthest along and would require minimal engineering work in his push to get shovels into the ground as quickly as possible.

The point ultimately is that there is no objective "best option". If your goal is to build something as quickly and as cheaply as possible to use primarily as a development tool, rather than actually convenient transit, you're going to think LRT is the best option, but if you think not having to wait behind red lights, having a consistent train schedule with tight headways is important, and a swift and convenient experience is important, you're going to push for grade separated transit. No amount of study is going to alleviate these biases because the studies themselves will be biased to the priorities of the people in charge of running them. This is why in Toronto, a city that really wants LRT, studies about LRT alignments always paint them in a positive light, meanwhile in Montreal, studies on at grade transit treats them with a "get this stuff off my desk" attitude.
 
...I don't think Douggie really cares with Mississauga thinks. Cities; lower or upper tier, are pretty much powerless to influence the province at least by the book. Look at what his government did to to Toronto's council.

Sure you could get political and say the ridings here are more blue than TO but the point remains. I doubt this motion by Mississauga will have any impact on the project.
 
Allandale25 said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1364700412750802953
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Absolutely hilarious.
ARG1 said:
The highway doesn't even go to Mississauga...
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www.orangeville.com

'GTA West does not align with Orangeville’s priorities': Council opposes Highway 413 through Caledon, Vaughan, Milton

With many supporting the creation of the GTA West and 413 corridor, Orangeville council feels it will bring more harm and do nothing to alleviate traffic concerns. Following in the footsteps of...
www.orangeville.com www.orangeville.com

This is also hilarious.
 
CaskoChan said:
Absolutely hilarious.


www.orangeville.com

'GTA West does not align with Orangeville’s priorities': Council opposes Highway 413 through Caledon, Vaughan, Milton

With many supporting the creation of the GTA West and 413 corridor, Orangeville council feels it will bring more harm and do nothing to alleviate traffic concerns. Following in the footsteps of...
www.orangeville.com www.orangeville.com

This is also hilarious.
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I wonder if they would oppose a 410 extension or highway 10 conversion to RIRO expressway to Orangeville.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
the proposed 413 would dump cars and trucks into a massive 401/407/413 interchage, so why would Mississauga not get a say in this project?
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because very few cars would then go to Mississauga. The majority of vehicles would go west, away from Mississauga, and a few might go south, which is on the western border of mississauga. Either way the highway basically completely bypasses Mississauga. If anything the complaint would be that the highway would divert too many potential customers away from mississauga by having less people go on the 401 or something, that's the most I can think of.
 
Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
the proposed 413 would dump cars and trucks into a massive 401/407/413 interchage, so why would Mississauga not get a say in this project?
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Not if it is tolled like the 407. It might even relief the 401 if a third of the trucks can be diverted to the 413.

They should set the price very high for cars and low for trucks. The 407 is just outrages for trucks so they keep off that highway.
 
I must say, I find the tone of some posters here who think no one should have a say in the construction of this highway unless they live within 10 minutes of the proposed route a bit much.

Its fine to say you support the project; as it is fine for me to say that I do not.

But when the environment and quality of life implications and the costs are born by all of us in the GTA it is simply not reasonable that our collective input not be considered.

I'd also wager some of the pro-highway posters here would see little if any benefit from the highway; and in accordance w/their own preferences should have no say in its construction either.

Formal opposition has now been registered from Mississaga, Brampton, Orangeville, Halton Hills............and the Ontario Farmland Trust.

I hasten to add the Globe and Mail has asserted that expert evaluation shows an average commute savings of 30 seconds resulting from this new offering.

From the Globe and Mail editorial:

1614278711331.png


Link: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opi...ighway-413-is-a-6-billion-sprawl-accelerator/
 
Can we build a narrow four lane dual carriageway just for trucks? Make it free for trucks and very expensive for single occupant vehicles.
 
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