Roads: GTA West Corridor—Highway 413

[TRONto]

Its important to say, based on the province's current fiscal situation, I don' think we can afford the GTA West and GO RER and the Ontario Line etc etc.

I think this is trotted out by successive governments but not true. They can magically blow money on a gas plant scandal yet for the same money could have built the Sheppard LRT. It's a not a limit that stops the government, it is a choice.

 

[TRONto]

And from time to time I also hear concerns raised about our construction industry's ability to handle so many large infrastructure projects all at once. This was the excuse the Liberals used to delay the Sheppard LRT into the 2020s, though I'm not sure to what degree they were actually being honest here.

I think that's an excuse, comparing 1999 to today, the construction industry can handle building 20x more condos (i made that up), so why not build multiple infrastructure projects at once.

 

[Northern Light]

I think this is trotted out by successive governments but not true. They can magically blow money on a gas plant scandal yet for the same money could have built the Sheppard LRT. It's a not a limit that stops the government, it is a choice.

There is certainly money for some priorities, when you don't deliver most.

But if you're expecting them all to show up at once in the budget, I can assure you that's a fiscal impossibility.

The money booked on the gas plant scandal was nominally 1B; much of it rather poorly spent by any measure.

The Ontario Line alone is stated at over 11B and will be closer to 15B.

That's without any new highways, or a myriad or other worthy transit projects.

 

[TRONto]

There is certainly money for some priorities, when you don't deliver most.

But if you're expecting them all to show up at once in the budget, I can assure you that's a fiscal impossibility.

The money booked on the gas plant scandal was nominally 1B; much of it rather poorly spent by any measure.

The Ontario Line alone is stated at over 11B and will be closer to 15B.

That's without any new highways, or a myriad or other worthy transit projects.

All the money is not spend in one shot but spread out over years in the budget so it's not as heavy as it sounds.

As an example, the current SSE and Eglinton West plans are 6.5 billion more than the original approved LRT plans. For that 6.5 billion, you could likely build the Sheppard LRT, a Steeles LRT, the Eglinton East LRT and the Waterfront LRT. If those assumptions are true, it would be possible to build 6 LRT projects in the same funding envelope and so at the same time.

 

[Steve X]

All the money is not spend in one shot but spread out over years in the budget so it's not as heavy as it sounds.

As an example, the current SSE and Eglinton West plans are 6.5 billion more than the original approved LRT plans. For that 6.5 billion, you could likely build the Sheppard LRT, a Steeles LRT, the Eglinton East LRT and the Waterfront LRT. If those assumptions are true, it would be possible to build 6 LRT projects in the same funding envelope and so at the same time.

I would be pretty amazed if Ford can get all 4 of his projects underway by 2022 along with GO electrification. Even if they don't complete on time, it is still a great achievement in Toronto transit history.

That said, will there be a shortage of labour that drives up the cost with some any lines under construction?

 

[TRONto]

That said, will there be a shortage of labour that drives up the cost with some any lines under construction?

That's plausible. Depends on how good the construction companies are at picking up the slack labour. Maybe have to attract people from other provinces to work here.

 

[rbt]

I would be pretty amazed if Ford can get all 4 of his projects underway by 2022 ...

What is your definition of underway?

At this point it's unlikely GO Expansion, which should award a tender by Spring, will begin non-trivial construction by 2022 (something bigger than utility moves). It'll take the winner a couple of years to finish the design, tender out subcontractors, and get permits in place.

 

[Steve X]

What is your definition of underway?

At this point it's unlikely GO Expansion, which should award a tender by Spring, will begin non-trivial construction by 2022 (something bigger than utility moves). It'll take the winner a couple of years to finish the design, tender out subcontractors, and get permits in place.

As in they are busy digging away everywhere with physical evidence. Finch West is getting close to that point.

 

[innsertnamehere]

As in they are busy digging away everywhere with physical evidence. Finch West is getting close to that point.

The MSF for Finch is in full on construction mode.

Signs of GO RER are already getting more common, with Rutherford GO, the 401 tunnel, 4th tracking Kitchener, etc. underway in various forms.

 

[rbt]

As in they are busy digging away everywhere with physical evidence. Finch West is getting close to that point.

Ahh. I'd say the odds of reaching that level of construction in 2022 for any project not yet tendered are about 1 billion to 1. DB* type tenders take a very long time to get rolling.

It is, however, possible for several projects to effectively reach the point of no return (as Finch had during the provincial election) without any visible construction underway.

 

[Neutrino]

Construction companies are recruiting from overseas - at least the one I worked at was.

 

[Allandale25]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1197572234136768519

 

[44 North]

Ontario Government be like:

 

[BurlOak]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1197572234136768519

Vaughan seems to think this is a 427 extension project. The highlighted preferred alignment is not the same as MTO (which is that black interchange area with highway 427)

 

[rbt]

Well the highway would serve truck traffic too and help move goods faster.

If trucks are the primary concern, just ban all cars from the center 2 lanes of highway 401 and call it a day. There's enough capacity in those 2 lanes to handle double our total trucking needs when cars are out of the way.

Moving goods is a side benefit that nobody (not MTO, Minister of Transportation, or Premier of Ontario) have as a priority over commuter traffic; nor will the 2% of our traffic that is goods be helped when the 98% of traffic grows to fill these new lanes.