Roads: Gardiner Expressway

[nfitz]

A pressurized TBM could tunnel through virtually anything.

Based on what I've seen when I've drilled boreholes in that area, I'd be very leary about using a TBM. I'd have thought you would have potentially endangered not only the road above, but the foundations of nearby buildings.

But I'm not a geotechnical engineer so I can't give a proper opinion, however I'd think one should be consulted on this issue.

 

[unimaginative2]

The purpose of an EPB machine is to prevent any subsidence in soft soils.

But I'm not a geotechnical engineer so I can't give a proper opinion, however I'd think one should be consulted on this issue.

I have no doubt that many would be. It'd be great if we had one here on the forum. Anyone out there?

 

[nfitz]

The purpose of an EPB machine is to prevent any subsidence in soft soils.

That's the direction you'd want to go, and what York is using on some of their new sewers - but you still get settlement - the question is how much would you get in that kind of environment - look a the problems with just the settlement on the Queens Quay streetcar track.

 

[TKTKTK]

With its 2m height limit, it can handle any SUV or Van on the market (save the Hummer H2, big loss)

I know you're not necessarily suggesting the same dimensions, but a 2m high tunnel sounds really, really unpleasant.

 

[adma]

Practically "Being John Malkovich"...

 

[unimaginative2]

The tunnel wouldn't be 2 metres high. It would have a two metre clearance. There's a big difference. And I just thought it might be a good idea for the city to look at cutting down on unnecessary air space in a tunnel, potentially saving billions of dollars, even at the cost of the tunnel being somewhat less pleasant.

Anyway, I believe each level of the tunnel in Paris has a ceiling around 2.7 metres high.

 

[TKTKTK]

The tunnel wouldn't be 2 metres high. It would have a two metre clearance. There's a big difference. And I just thought it might be a good idea for the city to look at cutting down on unnecessary air space in a tunnel, potentially saving billions of dollars, even at the cost of the tunnel being somewhat less pleasant.

Anyway, I believe each level of the tunnel in Paris has a ceiling around 2.7 metres high.

The billions are obviously better spent on public transit improvements than burying the Gardiner, especially if it's going to be replaced by an underground death trap.

Having to drive though a 2m high tunnel for any length on my way to work would make me very seriously consider transit alternatives.

Anyway I still wonder why the Gardiner gets such a bad rap, haven't we collectively come to the conclusion that the train-tracks are the more imposing barrier?

 

[JasonParis]

Anyway I still wonder why the Gardiner gets such a bad rap, haven't we collectively come to the conclusion that the train-tracks are the more imposing barrier?

Or that Lake Shore and the lack of anything around it is the largest barrier. The raised highway and the railway viaduct don't help the matter, but could be mitigated with more density, streetscaping and a more pedestrian-friendly Lake Shore.

 

[unimaginative2]

The billions are obviously better spent on public transit improvements than burying the Gardiner, especially if it's going to be replaced by an underground death trap.

Having to drive though a 2m high tunnel for any length on my way to work would make me very seriously consider transit alternatives.

I find that extremely difficult to believe, and if you were to do that I'm sure you'd be about the only person who'd choose to add massive amounts of time to their commute because they don't like the airiness of a tunnel. And, like I said, it's 2.7 metres not 2 metres. Here's a picture to give you some idea:

Think about it. How the hell is it an underground death trap? Is your car going to jump up in the air and hit the ceiling? I suppose any tunnel's a death trap, then.

Anyway I still wonder why the Gardiner gets such a bad rap, haven't we collectively come to the conclusion that the train-tracks are the more imposing barrier?

Of course they're the bigger barrier. That doesn't mean that the Gardiner isn't an ugly barrier that takes up a great deal of land. Lakeshore can never be pedestrian-friendly when there are columns coming down all over the place. No stores will ever open along a street with a highway over top, and no trees will grow.

 

[TKTKTK]

Think about it. How the hell is it an underground death trap? Is your car going to jump up in the air and hit the ceiling? I suppose any tunnel's a death trap, then.

My imagination must be a lot more active than yours. Oh wait, duh.

Lakeshore can never be pedestrian-friendly when there are columns coming down all over the place. No stores will ever open along a street with a highway over top, and no trees will grow.

People love walking around columns - look at the Pantheon. Anyway, open the stores under the highway, there's only one building I can think of that does it (the derelict Loblaws warehouse), and cars hardly ever crash onto the roof.

 

[junctionist]

If 2.7 metres is a deathtrap, what are you doing in a car? My apologies if you drive a convertible.

 

[TKTKTK]

If 2.7 metres is a deathtrap, what are you doing in a car? My apologies if you drive a convertible.

I dunno, having driven in long, low, fast tunnels before - I can say I don't feel particularly safe in them, and would rather not deal with one on a daily basis.

I suppose a 2m clearance limit will keep out trucks, busses (how very Moses), and anything large enough to scarily block the tunnel. Surrounded only by other cars it might not be bad. Still, I'd rather not.

 

[unimaginative2]

People love walking around columns - look at the Pantheon. Anyway, open the stores under the highway, there's only one building I can think of that does it (the derelict Loblaws warehouse), and cars hardly ever crash onto the roof.

Good luck renting retail space under the Gardiner, and no, not because cars might crash on them. That Erickson building tried, but eventually gave up because it's a lost cause.

Personally, I'd feel a lot safer in a 2.7 metre tunnel with no trucks than in a 3.5 metre tunnel with trucks.

 

[JasonParis]

Traditional retail may not work, but things like a skateboard park, market stalls, etc. could.

 

[TKTKTK]

Personally, I'd feel a lot safer in a 2.7 metre tunnel with no trucks than in a 3.5 metre tunnel with trucks.

Yeah, still not really warming up to the tunnel idea. Its expensive, claustrophobic, and transit-restrictive.

Wouldn't you rather spend the money on a new subway/rail line? Maybe something in a Queensway, Queen St., Kingston Rd. alignment? That way I can save on $17 taxi rides across the city?