Roads: Ambassador & Gordie Howe Bridges

[junctionist]

My bet is that the Morouns run the Ambassador into the ground until it basically collapses.

At one point they had planned a new bridge right next door, which is why they bought up a bunch of land in Windsor to make space for it (they have since demolished all the houses they purchased, making it vacant land) - but that is dead now as it isn't practical with the Gordie. I can't imagine it will be anywhere close to the money maker it used to be, so my assumption is that they will run it until it needs major capital spending that they can't finance any longer and then will fold and let it become a government liability.

They'll probably just follow the Detroit playbook of running it into the ground and then selling it to someone for pennies on the dollar (who'll likely lack the means to maintain it). At that point, it'll probably be on the verge of collapsing, and the government will have to step in--possibly seizing it for unpaid taxes.

 

[IRT_BMT_IND]

That suckkkkks

Guess I'll keep using the tunnel for the Duty Free shop there (I steer clear of Ambassador). Probably a lot less crowded once this thing opens anyway.

How many billions did they spend on this thing? 6? And not a penny for a money making duty free store? Stupid.

I believe there is space set aside on the bridge authority's property for a duty free store, there will be a tendering process for a private operator to build and operate it.

 

[Haljackey]

There’s also an empty ramp leading to an expansion of the customs plaza on the Canadian side as well.

Agreed it was all for show. I drove across for the first time in years (having made a point of boycotting the bridge) as I figured it’d be the last time I’d ever do so and I remember it being a rough drive, with one lane seemingly permanently out of commission.

Ya I avoid it too- take the Tunnel. I'll sometimes get offered a free room at the Caesars Windsor casino (which is rumored could be sold to OLG sometime this year) if I'm starting a trip to the US Sun-Thurs, and the tunnel (and duty free) is right there. Up to the pandemic, that was a great place to convert your CAD to USD- better than the banks. Now they require you to show a US ID before converting which sucks.

I'll certainly take Gordie Howe once it opens, especially when returning back to Canada.

 

[ericmacm]

Ya they planned a new 6 lane bridge and actually built a approach ramp for it during the Detroit side interchange reconstructions in the 2000s. That ended up being all for show and a stall tactic they used to propagate Gordie wasn't needed as they were going to build a new span.

Around 2020 or so Canada gave them clearance to build a new bridge to the side if they wanted to. Not sure what the US stance is but judging that approach is there they should be good to go?

They'll probably do nothing until maybe a year or two after Gordie Howe opens. Then it comes time, based on the traffic/revenue levels, to decide to build a replacement span. Either tear down the old bridge and building a new one, or build one parallel. They could also just choose to refurbish the current span (easier to do with less traffic) or just simply run it into the ground, performing as little basic maintenance as possible.

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You can see the (possible future) bridge connection on the US side:

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The Canadian government permit expired in 2022 after it was granted in 2017. There was a deadlock in terms of what the US government and Canadian governments wanted - Canada would only allow construction of the new span if they knocked the Ambassador Bridge down, but the US would only grant the permit if the Ambassador Bridge was preserved. There is no pathway to construction now. The Morouns have also been pouring a lot of money into bridge refurbishment over the past 5 years, so the bridge will still be with us for quite a while.

I used to be optimistic about the construction and need for a second span. Now the only thing that I am confident about is that there is a clock on private ownership. I am increasingly of the belief that they will seek a Canadian government buyout once revenues dry up, and that the government will maintain it as a historical crossing for redundancy.

 

[junctionist]

The University of Windsor and west Windsor would be a lot better off without the bridge. I would think there would be a lot of local pressure to get rid of it versus keeping it for redundancy. The tunnel already serves that purpose.

 

[Sauga89]

I think you have to wonder what the longer term future of the Ambassador Bridge will be. Hard to believe that the Morouns will spend much on an asset not returning on investment.

And I think it is fair to ask what becomes of Huron Church Road once the intense amount of truck traffic moves to the Gordie? Not sure of Windsors plans for this route either.

It kind of sounds to me like the city of Windsor and the Ontario government have competing interests here to sort out.

I mean, presumably the Ontario government would want to keep wait times to cross the border low to promote trade and international business. Wouldn't closing the Ambassador bridge push up wait times at the Gordie Howe bridge? It would also create a single point of failure for truck traffic, since they can't use the tunnel. Without the Ambassador bridge, an American factory considering buying Canadian parts would have to consider the risk of an accident or protest disrupting the Gordie Howe, and the impact that would have on their logistics if a truck had to go around to Sarnia. They might be more likely to buy from an American supplier, and Doug Ford probably wouldn't like that.

If the Ambassador bridge stays open though, what then? I've heard that the city of Windsor is hoping that the new bridge will make Huron Church quieter, but what if the Gordie Howe only splits cross border traffic? I read in a CBC article that the new bridge would capture 60% of the Ambassador Bridge's traffic, but 40% of the current traffic still seems like a lot to me.

In that same CBC article, someone was proposing looking at bike lanes. Does the Ontario government let the city of Windsor take away lanes from Huron Church to make it more pedestrian-friendly (and would that actually reduce congestion on Huron Church) knowing it would push up wait times at the Howe bridge?

I used to be optimistic about the construction and need for a second span. Now the only thing that I am confident about is that there is a clock on private ownership. I am increasingly of the belief that they will seek a Canadian government buyout once revenues dry up, and that the government will maintain it as a historical crossing for redundancy.

But if the Ontario government (EDIT: or federal government) bought the Ambassador bridge, they'd have an incentive to fix some of the problems with its approach to get the most out of it. They could put in a highway interchange at College Ave and Huron Church, and grade separate that confusing railroad crossing. But that might draw more traffic down Huron Church, which is the opposite of what Windsor wants. Maybe they could take the new bike path away from the Gordie Howe, and add one to the Ambassador instead? There are a lot of decisions to be made.

 

[lenaitch]

But if the Ontario government bought the Ambassador bridge, they'd have an incentive to fix some of the problems with its approach to get the most out of it. They could put in a highway interchange at College Ave and Huron Church, and grade separate that confusing railroad crossing. But that might draw more traffic down Huron Church, which is the opposite of what Windsor wants. Maybe they could take the new bike path away from the Gordie Howe, and add one to the Ambassador instead? There are a lot of decisions to be made.

That would be quite a leap (no pun intended) for the province. They would have to seek joint ownership with Michigan since Ontario stops at the middle of the river. The only two crossing bridges that I am aware are owned jointly are the Pigeon River and Beaudette-Rainy River bridges in northwestern Ontario. Other than the Ambassador, all others are owned by corporations or commissions of government.

 

[Sauga89]

That would be quite a leap (no pun intended) for the province. They would have to seek joint ownership with Michigan since Ontario stops at the middle of the river. The only two crossing bridges that I am aware are owned jointly are the Pigeon River and Beaudette-Rainy River bridges in northwestern Ontario. Other than the Ambassador, all others are owned by corporations or commissions of government.

Honestly, I just said Ontario because I didn't think it mattered to my point exactly which branch of government bought the bridge. Whether with the federal or provincial government (or the U.S. federal or Michigan governments for that matter), you still have those competing interests with the city of Windsor to deal with I think.

 

[ShonTron]

There was a pedestrian sidewalk on the Ambassador Bridge, but it was closed in 2001 due to “security concerns.”

There are public sidewalks on two of the four Niagara River crossings.

I don’t know if the Ambassador Bride sidewalk could easily be reopened or widened (with a three-lane traffic cross-section). Right now the only way to get across the Detroit or St. Clair Rivers by foot or bike is the Tunnel Bus or the Walpole Island ferry.