Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan

[Northern Light]

IMO, we need to have more suicide or safety barriers on more of our bridges.

Passenger dies after vehicle on DVP struck by person falling from bridge

Officers were called to the DVP at Leaside Bridge at 11:59 p.m. for the fatal incident.

www.thestar.com

Paywall free: https://archive.is/VCkGG

It does seem counterintuitive to have a barrier on the Prince Edward Viaduct, but almost no where else. My friend's son killed himself from the Leaside bridge, like in the article above, for example. Thankfully in that case he didn't kill anyone else.

Despite what the Admiral thinks, I actually like him, most days.......... LOL

Which is why I'm sharing something.......

There's a walk-in motion coming to Infrastructure and Environment today:

https://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/mmis/2024/ie/bgrd/backgroundfile-247251.pdf

It comes via Councillor James Pasternak:

As noted above, its not the first request.....so whether this one will have more traction, assuming Ctte adopts it, we shall see.

I expect committee will adopt this, but it may be a year or more to see the report, and then several more for implementation.

If the Admiral, or anyone who supports this wants to see this item advanced, an extremely quick note to the Committee Chair (like now) might suggest a friendly amendment to add a report back date (ie by July '25) and a still non-specific statement like 'with a view to implementing such barriers as soon as practical" (to encourage a placeholder in the 2025 budget submission.

 

[Northern Light]

Someone was paying attention: ^^^^

The above was adopted, with an amendment:

 

[elcorrerador]

https://www.cp24.com/mobile/news/wo...iver-of-vehicle-in-downtown-toronto-1.6969377

Tragic. Pedestrian was on the crossover and hit by a vehicle.

 

[picard102]

Do they mean the crosswalk?

 

[crs1026]

Do they mean the crosswalk?

Terminology. What many people call a "crosswalk" is actually a "crossover". Queen and Sackville has a crossover (crossing Queen) and two crosswalks (crossing Sackville).
The police statement appears to refer to a crossover and I trust the police used that word in its proper meaning, so the victim probably was crossing Queen.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

Do they mean the crosswalk?

It depends. Per the HTA (paraphrased) a "pedestrian crossover" is a part of a road distinctly marked (in accordance with the Regulations) as a pedestrian crossing area. A "pedestrian crosswalk" is an area marked for pedestrian crossing at an intersection OR any other area identified by signs or markings.

It's a clumsy definition. Typically, a 'crossover' is mid-block (or at a non-signalled intersection) with the old overhead sign and lights or new signs and LED sidelights, and a crosswalk is part of an intersection's markings, signs and controls. We've come to refer a 'crossover' as a 'crosswalk'.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Push. Pray. Walk: After yet another death, should Toronto replace these dangerous pedestrian crossovers?​

https://archive.is/tidHt

IMO, most overhead pedestrian crossings should be reduced to two lanes at the crossing.

 

[PL1]

Push. Pray. Walk: After yet another death, should Toronto replace these dangerous pedestrian crossovers?​

https://archive.is/tidHt

IMO, most overhead pedestrian crossings should be reduced to two lanes at the crossing.

I really liked the pedestrian-controlled reds in Vancouver. Basically there is a red light instead of the ridiculous flashing yellow

 

[afransen]

I really liked the pedestrian-controlled reds in Vancouver. Basically there is a red light instead of the ridiculous flashing yellow

Yes, they make a lot more sense and are more intuitive for drivers and amenable to automated enforcement.

We also should look at pedestrian refuges and traffic calming options. Raised crossings may not be suitable, but there are other traffic calming options that could be employed.

 

[Admiral Beez]

This, where possible.

 

[JasonParis]

I do like British crosswalks too, but they are always flashing. There is no distinction between when someone is using it and when someone isn't. But maybe that actually makes drivers pay more attention?

 

[crs1026]

Be careful what you wish for. There is a traffic light style crossover at Bloor and Grenview in the west end. The delay when the beg button is pressed is so long (presumably because the traffic people don't want it operated too frequently) that most users just go ahead and cross before it cycles to walk. Bloor has a median at that location so one can jaywalk in moderate safety. The traffic light is an inconvenience to both pedestrians and drivers. A standard crossover would be much more effective for pedestrians (but might stop more cars more often, affecting flow).

I find users are fairly careless with crosswalks, sometimes triggering the lights before they intend to cross, or being distracted and changing their mind and not crossing at all. With the flashing light, drivers can adapt and proceed once the crossover is clear. With a red light, there is a fixed duration of stop and drivers have to hold until the green cycles on. That may be added frustration, and may cause drivers to defy the controls altogether. Unless one intends to enforce (in Toronto, that's a fantasy), I can see things working worse rather than better.

- Paul

 

[Northern Light]

Be careful what you wish for. There is a traffic light style crossover at Bloor and Grenview in the west end. The delay when the beg button is pressed is so long (presumably because the traffic people don't want it operated too frequently) that most users just go ahead and cross before it cycles to walk. Bloor has a median at that location so one can jaywalk in moderate safety. The traffic light is an inconvenience to both pedestrians and drivers. A standard crossover would be much more effective for pedestrians (but might stop more cars more often, affecting flow).

@reaperexpress can probably speak to the design idea here.......

My understanding is that most midblock pedestrian activated traffic lights are indeed timed to either have an optional triggering of a red inline with a nearby traffic light, or sometimes, one mid-cycle.

But that can be a 2 minute + wait.

****

I would somewhat split the difference here in a few ways.

1) I'm not a fan of the standard flashing yellow light PXO because I find drivers are insufficiently diligent about adhering to it (stopping for pedestrians).

2) At a select number of locations, I see merit to the idea of converting these to a more conventional traffic light, but I'm on the record as saying Toronto has too many traffic lights, too close together, and I will stand by that and suggest most PXOs are not good conversion candidates.

3) A greater focus needs to be on traffic being predictable, moderate speed, and to create 'natural openings' for crossing based on how nearby lights operate. The use of refuge islands also has a place in this discussion for sure, though I'm inclined to suggest they should be vehicle-protected but with the actual crossing at-grade (including the refuge area), as curb cuts/steps can be an accessibility issue and trip hazard.

Put simply, it should be normal, on most roads, to expect pedestrians to cross mid block without any form of signal (or PXO) 'protection', while they should be aware and observant, the road design should make this relatively easy, and safe crossing a very practical thing. Where certain locations have unavoidable traffic volume or extra lanes such that informal crossings aren't practical then we get into a discussion of what degree of visual cue to motorists would best serve safety and convenience for all; and whether any form of added protection for a crosswalk may make sense

 

[reaperexpress]

I do like British crosswalks too, but they are always flashing. There is no distinction between when someone is using it and when someone isn't. But maybe that actually makes drivers pay more attention?

It helps avoid the situation we have in Toronto where many drivers think that pedestrians only have priority at pedestrian crossovers when the lights are flashing. But the flashing lights have nothing to do with priority assignment - pedestrians have the right of way at pedestrian crossovers regardless of whether the lights are flashing (if there are even lights at all)

 

[Admiral Beez]

IMO, pedestrian crossovers should only be used on single lane roads with speeds marked at 30 kph or less. Anything at 40 kph and/or with two lanes should have a proper traffic light... and that having rapid response, no pressing the button and waiting 2-3 mins.