Road Safety & Vision Zero Plan

[Northern Light]

What needs to happen is a large multimedia shame campaign against Tory and other municipal leaders.

We all know that Tory doesn't really care about this because road safety is something that doesn't really impact him (his being part of the Bloor-Lawrence spine of wealth that can afford to drive/get chauffeured having to do with it)- but a permanent smear on his legacy might.

There are many things for which Mr. Tory can be rightly faulted; including letting himself get snookered by City staff when they present watered down/half-baked solutions to problems such as these.

But in fairness to our Mayor; I've been known to encounter him in the early hours of the day on Line 1, subwaying down from his condo to City Hall; he's been known to hoof it on occasion too.

He's more an urbanite than Ford or Lastman; I'm not sure vis a vis Miller; who lived (lives?) in the High Park area, as I recall.

 

[jje1000]

It is more fundamental than Tory - it is the modus operandi of the city - particularly the burbs (and the province at large) that's the issue. It could be a different mayor, and you'd still get Robinson, Pasternak, Lai and all the other shameless apologists.

AoD

Yes, but the mayor can set the tone and direction of city policy- and we can see that he doesn't care or know enough to do so. Again, it's not like Tory is proposing reengineering roads to be safer and getting pushback from said councillors- the status quo is being dressed up as progress. Have we even seen an intersection being proposed for reconfiguration yet?

The fundamental issue is that this is a fairly low-boil issue- a pedestrian/cyclist gets killed once in a while, and it all becomes static and statistics to the greater car-driving public (who can sometimes see non-car drivers as an 'other'). Rejection of this status quo needs to be louder than just tweets and forum posts to catch attention.

The city also needs to understand what exactly causes people to flee from the scene. Is it fear + understanding that they likely won't get caught? Is it from cultures where human life is worth very little? Unless the city is willing to blanket in cameras, it's a difficult problem to solve- one that's compounded by the 'lack of eyes' on many arterial streets.

 

[salsa]

It is more fundamental than Tory - it is the modus operandi of the city - particularly the burbs (and the province at large) that's the issue. It could be a different mayor, and you'd still get Robinson, Pasternak, Lai and all the other shameless apologists.

AoD

Under a different mayor, the individuals you mention would never be appointed to top positions in charge of road safety. Also, what @jje1000 said.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Under a different mayor, the individuals you mention would never be appointed to top positions in charge of road safety. Also, what @jje1000 said.

And under a different council, the individuals wouldn't have to be confirmed. Tory does what he does because it is a symbiotic relationship to shut out the so called "left".

Yes, but the mayor can set the tone and direction of city policy- and we can see that he doesn't care or know enough to do so. Again, it's not like Tory is proposing reengineering roads to be safer and getting pushback from said councillors- the status quo is being dressed up as progress. Have we even seen an intersection being proposed for reconfiguration yet?

Tory isn't a leader - he is the ultimate opportunist/survivor - he bends whichever way he can get away with - and under the current council, this is the way he bends.

The city also needs to understand what exactly causes people to flee from the scene. Is it fear + understanding that they likely won't get caught? Is it from cultures where human life is worth very little? Unless the city is willing to blanket in cameras, it's a difficult problem to solve- one that's compounded by the 'lack of eyes' on many arterial streets.

I found your insinuation that this is somehow an [ethno]cultural issue somewhat disturbing and distracting - you won't be solving this issue looking at that direction. How you will solve it is by treating driving not as a right but a privilege that has to be earned and awarded on merit; with zealous enforcement of traffic laws such that there is no misunderstanding that these responsibilities are non-optional, and have penalties that - if necessary - permanently take away the privilege of driving along with levying a punishment proportional to the severity of the crime. To do this you will need to break the political power of certain groups and governments - and Tory's is the least important of it.

AoD

 

[jje1000]

I found your insinuation that this is somehow an [ethno]cultural issue somewhat disturbing and distracting - you won't be solving this issue looking at that direction. How you will solve it is by treating driving not as a right but a privilege that has to be earned and awarded on merit; with zealous enforcement of traffic laws such that there is no misunderstanding that these responsibilities are non-optional, and have penalties that - if necessary - permanently take away the privilege of driving along with levying a punishment proportional to the severity of the crime. To do this you will need to break the political power of certain groups and governments - and Tory's is the least important of it.

I never brought up it up as an ethno issue, but thanks for trying to make it a race thing I suppose.

I don't think cultural issues should be taboo in any form of investigation. The drivers in these situation have learnt that they can get away from problems by simply driving away, and they have been rewarded for it. This is a standard of 'acceptable' for them. The more this happens, the more it becomes accepted in society as a whole, as part of a 'cheat sheet'.

And I'd say it's too easy to want to break political power when the whole mass is more or less invisible (little benefit from media attention- especially when people don't care about municipal politics) and interconnected (difficult to isolate targets). Any action that wants popular support should and must involve Tory, as Vision Zero 2.0 was his initiative. Vision 2.0 was his baby, and he should own up to its failure. And from your statements above, it's very much a Tory problem as well.

Of note from Reddit:

Also, make traffic flow control less of a circus by:

• disallowing manoeuvring on a red light under any circumstances.
• changing green light timing so that they do not coincide with pedestrian crossings while pedestrians are crossing (?‍).
• adding a ‘left turn’ signal at intersections.
• replacing road signs with ones that are clear, legible, and consistently located.
• getting rid of all-way stops.

In other words, bring Toronto up to the standards of countries outside of North America.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

I never brought up it up as an ethno issue, but thanks for trying to make it a race thing I suppose.

I don't think cultural issues should be taboo in any form of investigation. The drivers in these situation have learnt that they can get away from problems by simply driving away, and they have been rewarded for it. This is a standard of 'acceptable' for them. The more this happens, the more it becomes accepted in society as a whole, as part of a 'cheat sheet'.

You literally just said "Is it from cultures where human life is worth very little", seriously please let's not be coy about me turning it into something about race. It's not race - but ethnocultural values you are referring to. And no, if you look at our policy responses in the context of traffic deaths, one'd say we are the ones with a culture where a human life is worth very little. $50,000 - in fact.

AoD

 

[jje1000]

You literally just said "Is it from cultures where human life is worth very little", seriously please let's not be coy about me turning it into something about race. It's not race - but ethnocultural values you are referring to. And no, if you look at our policy responses in the context of traffic deaths, one'd say we are the ones with a culture where a human life is worth very little.

AoD

Yeah, and cultures are not intrinsically linked to ethnicities.

So I'd still say that you're still trying to make it a race-based thing when I said the cultures that make this possible should be looked at to understand the reasons why this is occurring- a completely valid statement- AND something that should never be taboo.

For the record, the last few people arrested for hit-and-runs were identifiably white. So unless these people don't have a culture, it's valid to say that these people's cultures have taught them that this is an acceptable get-out-of-jail card.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Yeah, and cultures are not intrinsically linked to ethnicities.

So I'd still say that you're still trying to make it a race-based thing when I said the cultures that make this possible should be looked at to understand the reasons why this is occurring- a completely valid statement- AND something that should never be taboo.

For the record, the last few people arrested for hit-and-runs were identifiably white. So unless these people don't have a culture, it's valid to say that these people's cultures have taught them that this is an acceptable get-out-of-jail card.

Sorry, "where" has a very specific meaning - with the unspoken implication that it is not here. Quoting the record after your statement is a save. Please, it's not hard to read between the lines.

AoD

 

[jje1000]

Sorry, "where" has a very specific meaning - with the unspoken implication that it is not here. Quoting the record after your statement is a save.

AoD

Y'all sure about that? You're just trying to apply meaning where is no additional context (assuming that "where" is a loaded word that excludes Toronto). This is literally you trying to read between the lines.

And for the record, I still believe that a cultural understanding of why this is happening needs to occur- you're just the one who's running away with the insinuation, and I personally don't know why you'd get so triggered about it.

 

[picard102]

What needs to happen is a large multimedia shame campaign against Tory and other municipal leaders.

A shame campaign would require a public appetite to see change.
Thus far, like global warming, people are generally supportive of change, so long as they don't have to change themselves.

 

[jje1000]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1200398543397240832

 

[tiffer24]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1200536545691947008

 

[salsa]

Article is paywall-free. Link: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...y-as-the-number-of-toronto-hit-and-runs-keep/

 

[W. K. Lis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1200385191312801793

 

[TossYourJacket]

The province needs to make the penalty for hit and run collisions so huge no one will think about ever driving away again.