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Rank these NA cities

H

Hipster Duck

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With all the silly city rankings articles that get put out, I was wondering if we might have some fun ranking North American cities ourselves. The objective of this game is to rank a North American city in terms of an "urban quality of life"*, without factoring cost of living or the relativity of size. For example, Montreal is inarguably cheaper than Toronto to live in, but it can be argued whether it is a better city for urban-minded people. Also, metro Ottawa is about a quarter of the size of metro Atlanta but has about the same urban appeal, but that doesn't mean that Ottawa should get 4X the score Atlanta does.

* Yeah, I know that's impossible to quantify, but think about how much you like a certain city for its urban attributes.

Use a rating of 100 for Toronto. So, if you think a city has more of an urban appeal than Toronto, it would be more than 100. If it has less urban appeal than rate it below 100. If you don't honestly know the qualities of a city, leave it blank or write "I don't know". Also, think of a city in terms of its metropolitan region, so SF includes Berkeley, Oakland, San Jose.

Here's the list. I'll be back to post my own rankings later.

Enjoy!


Remember: Toronto = 100

Canada
St. John's
Halifax
St. John
Quebec
Montreal
Ottawa
Hamilton
KW
London
Winnipeg
Saskatoon
Regina
Edmonton
Calgary
Vancouver
Victoria

US Northeast
Portland, ME
Boston
Providence
New Haven
New York
Philadelphia
Baltimore
Washington DC

US Rust Belt
Buffalo
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Columbus
Cincinnati
Louisville
Detroit

US South
Richmond
Hampton Roads (Norfolk, Newport News, Virginia Beach)
Charlotte + Raleigh/Durham
Charleston
Atlanta
Savannah
Jacksonville
Tampa/St Pete
Miami
Birmingham
New Orleans
Memphis
Nashville
Little Rock
Louisville
Houston
Dallas
Austin
San Antonio

US Midwest

Minneapolis/St.Paul
Milwaukee
Chicago
Indianapolis
St. Louis
Kansas City
Omaha
Des Moines
Oklahoma City

US Mountain States

Denver/Boulder
Salt Lake
Albuquerque
Phoenix
Las Vegas
Reno

US West Coast

Seattle
Portland
San Francisco
Sacramento
Los Angeles/Riverside
San Diego

Other

Honolulu
 
Unfortunately I haven't been to most of the major centres in North America. I played a high level of hockey growing up which sent me to places like Marlborough MA and Port Huron MI, but not many of the larger centres like those listed here. Also, I would have been in my early teens for much of these visits, so I can only go by what would have stood out to me then.

Toronto = 100

Canada
Ottawa = 65
Hamilton = 55
KW = 60
London = 65


US Northeast
Boston = 90

US Rust Belt
Buffalo = 40
Cleveland = 40
Detroit = 20

US Midwest
Chicago = 95
 
Here are my current rankings to cities where I spent more than a day in:

Canada
Hamilton = 60
Kitchener-Waterloo = 80
Montreal = 95
Halifax = 85
Quebec City = 90

US Northwest
Boston = 85
New York = 80

US Rust Belt
Buffalo = 40

US South
Atlanta = 50
Dallas = 55

US Midwest
Milwaukee = 45
 
Urban quality of life, huh?

Canada
St. John's = ?: looks very interesting, must get to NL sometime
Halifax = 68: very pleasant city, but little of it is urban: tons of sprawl in the burbs
Saint John = ?: never spelled "St." to help differentiate from SJ's NL. NS relatives call it "Armpit of the Maritimes"
Quebec = 86: beautiful setting and old town, dense core, but sprawlly suburbs, few really-big-city amenities
Montreal = 99: Metro not air conditioned
Ottawa = 76.25: Great park system, good museums, culturally a bit dull though
Hamilton = 49: coulda been a contender 100 years ago
KW = 50: has potential to rise in rankings if growth carefully guided
London = 49: replaces Hamilton's downtrodden state with simple dullness
Winnipeg = 55: old Chicago-of-the-north area awaits prosperity
Edmonton = 58: lots of festivals, too much sprawl
Calgary = 71: 'The Bow' = most of those points, otherwise sprawltacular
Vancouver = 89: high number of smug alert days detract from spectacular setting
Victoria = 110 if you're a rich retiree or gardener, 82 for others

US Northeast
Boston = 88: lots going on here
New York = 300
Washington DC = 70: unbelievable traffic, sprawl, but good Metro, museums

US Rust Belt
Buffalo = 21: proximity to Toronto boosts ranking
Cleveland = 24: proximity to Akron has neutral effect
Pittsburgh = 68: improved dramatically in last 2 decades
Detroit = 32: proximity to Frankenmuth is amusing

US South
Hampton Roads (Norfolk, Newport News, Virginia Beach) = not really a city
Miami = 16: soulless downtown unless you like above-ground parking garages
New Orleans = 1: will only get better after years of recovery, French Quarter has higher score on its own, but not that high
Austin = I hear this is the best city south (and west) of the Mason Dixon line

US Midwest

Milwaukee = 40: proximity to Chicago helps rating
Chicago = 84: a number of worthwhile areas, but a whole lot that's not
St. Louis = 50: fence sitters

US Mountain States

Las Vegas = 27: freakish, ranks higher if flashing lights a priority

US West Coast

Seattle = 87: needs better transit
Portland = 86: works well, but too wholesome
San Francisco = 100: if you can afford the real estate
Los Angeles/Riverside = 74: just too damn big, like a neverending Hispanic Scarborough
San Diego = 78: great climate, a bit sleepy

42
 
Some interesting comments have been made! Here are mine, for what they're worth:

Canada
Halifax: 75. Small but nice, heavy university influence, historic.
Quebec City: 80. Historic, like nowhere else in Canada. Good street life, at least in the summer.
Montreal: 90. Has improved in recent years; has that je ne sais quoi that makes it interesting on the street level. Transit is OK but not to Toronto standards.
Ottawa: 80. Has culture galore, interchange! Working on upgrading transit. Nice setting in Eastern Ontario and close to Gatineau.
Hamilton: 50. Better than some people think, but the downtown is a disaster area.
Kitchener-Waterloo: 70. Huge potential, growing very quickly. Downtown Kitchener is not bad at all. Benefits from deep pockets of some local philanthropists (Balsillie and Lazaridis). Some attractions not far out of town (Elmira, Elora Gorge, St. Jacob's, Stratford), and close to Toronto.
London: 60. Boring. Downtown needs some serious work. Has a reputation as an affluent city, but you wouldn't know it. The affluent people, whoever they are, don't seem to be much involved.
Calgary: 70. Growing too quickly. Proximity to Rockies is a good redeeming feature.
Edmonton: 70. Several good features, but again growing too quickly. May be overdependent on oil refineries.
Vancouver: 100. Best lifestyle, hands down, offset by increasing unaffordability.

U.S. Northeast
Boston: 100. Not much to not like, although some areas are still slummy.
New York: 150. In a class of its own.
Washington: 90. History and culture.

U.S. Rust belt
Buffalo: 25. Not much to recommend it. A shame, apparently it was a truly great city 75 years ago.
Cleveland: 40. Rock n roll museum, and some effort to upgrade the waterfront.
Pittsburgh: 70. Nice setting, making a transition from rust belt to the new economy. Headquarters of several large companies. Riverboats and two"incline railways" are interesting attractions. Transit system is relatively good.
Detroit: 10.

U.S. South
Miami: 25. South Beach and some other areas are interesting although tourist-trappy. Worth one visit only.
New Orleans: I've never been there, what a shame, what has happened there.

U.S. Midwest
Chicago: 100. Lots of activity, sports and culture. Good food. They are seriously upgrading their transit system; we could take a lesson from them. Very good waterfront; we could take a lesson from them.

U.S. West
San Francisco: 100. Very little downside to this place: scenery / setting, culture, good transit, walkable nabes.
Los Angeles: 80. The epitome of sprawl, but they are working on it.
 
Canada
Halifax= 75
St. John= 50
Montreal= 60
Ottawa= 70
Hamilton= 40
KW= 60
London= 60
Regina= 60
Edmonton= 60
Calgary= 110
Vancouver= 120
Victoria= 130

US Northeast
Portland, ME= 40
Boston= 100
New York= 100
Baltimore= 110
Washington DC= 100

US Rust Belt
Buffalo= 30
Cleveland= 10
Pittsburgh= 75
Columbus= 80
Cincinnati= 70
Louisville= 40
Detroit= (-1,000)

US South
Richmond= 40
Hampton Roads (Norfolk, Newport News, Virginia Beach)= 90
Atlanta= 100
Savannah= 80
Jacksonville= 80
Tampa/St Pete= 70
Miami= 80
Memphis= 20
Nashville= 70
Little Rock= 20
Louisville= 40 (why is Louisville listed a second time?)
Houston= 60
Dallas= 75

US Midwest
Minneapolis/St.Paul= 80
Milwaukee= 10
Chicago= 100
Indianapolis= 40
St. Louis= 50
Kansas City= 50
Omaha= 70
Des Moines= 60

US Mountain States
Denver/Boulder= 110
Albuquerque= 50
Phoenix= 80

US West Coast
Seattle= 110
Portland= 80
San Francisco= 120
Los Angeles/Riverside= 100

Other
Honolulu= 120
 
Metro not air conditioned...proximity to Akron has neutral effect...110 if you're a rich retiree or gardener, 82 for others
Click to expand...

Ha ha, interchange. You cheeky bastard.

---

Anyway,

Canada

Quebec = 45. I've been told there are some great neighbourhoods like Limoilou, but I've only seen the touristy stuff and the low-grade bungalow and tilt-up pool sprawl on the outskirts.

Montreal = 95. Beautiful buildings, beautiful women, good vibe, good Lebanese food, but a certain je ne sais quois puts Toronto higher by an inch. Suburbs look incredibly trashy.

Ottawa = 65. While bilingualism seems to work in Mtl, it seems to cancel out in Ottawa/Gatineau. Some good nabes and I like busways.

Hamilton = 55. Somewhere between the Philadelphia and Newark of Toronto. It could be one of the country's better cities if they put their mind to it. Build the damn Lakeshore electric regional rail line.

KW = 20. Formless sprawlhole with little to recommend it; downtown vibrancy is inversely proportional to the beauty of the buildings. Thus Waterloo is the most vibrant and Cambridge the least.

London = 25. The archetype of a middling Canadian city. What that means is that, unlike middling American cities, downtown doesn't look like a neutron bomb went off, but whatever hustle and bustle there is in downtown London is mostly geared toward mullet rock bars and dollar stores. A very nice farmer's market.

Edmonton = 58. Old Strathcona and the area around the high level bridge are decent, but anything built before 1912 is considered prehistoric and sadly that's when most of North America's urban vernacular was constructed. The Phoenix of Canada, albeit at the other temperature extreme.

Calgary = 67. Better than Edmonton. Arguably better than Ottawa. Kensington, 17th street and a half decent pedestrian mall.

Vancouver = 80. Better than Torontonians give it credit for. Smuggy. Proof that you can still build vibrant neighbourhoods from scratch. Richmond is probably the most exciting suburb in North America.

US

Boston = 88. Really good food; impressive rowhouses. Beligerent sports fans and the worst road planning around.

New York = 200. This goes without saying.

Philadelphia = 85. America's most underrated city. Fantastic
neighbourhoods, although too much of it still feels hopelessly broken.

Washington DC = 78. Good metro, Haussmann blocks and colourful rowhouse charm if you can afford it (and rat-infested ghettos if you can't). Seemingly no urban middle class whatsoever.


Buffalo = 36. Elmwood corridor seems nice in a collegiate sort of way. The rest of the town is bleak. Excellent art gallery.

Cleveland = 38. Marginally bigger and therefore marginally better than Buffalo. Despite its age, only one or two urban neighbourhoods, which goes to show you that America built suburbia a generation before Canadians even tried.

Detroit = 12. Urban ruins exploration is fun but depressing. Royal Oak has a nice four block strip. Sprawl without growth. What the rest of America will look like if they fall like Rome.

Atlanta = 27. The most sprawling city in human history does have some far flung charms, but they are woefully small for such a large city. +5 for having a black middle class and for unabashedly building PoMo skyscrapers fifteen years too late.

Phoenix = 33. Better than they say. Somewhere in the unsustainable wreck of subprime mortgage housing there are some redeeming qualities. More bike infrastructure than Toronto will ever have and they know how to build appealing, modernist low-rise infill which we don't.

Las Vegas = 5. Exemplifies everything that is wrong with America. 5 points for building a facsimile of Venice out of real stone and Travertine rather than just Sheetrock and Tyvek.

San Francisco = 105. I prefer Toronto, but SF comes very close. It gets a slight nudge upward because its satellite cities are nice, urban centres on their own and Toronto's satellite cities are generally malls with condos around them. MUNI is puny and I still prefer the TTC, but their regional transportation infrastructure (BART, etc.) is better.

Los Angeles/Riverside = 85. I can't help but like the largest sprawl of them all. The funny thing is that it has as many urban neighbourhoods as Toronto, but they are all so far flung from one another that you invariably end up taking the car to go from one to another (which makes the urban attributes argument sort of moot). Still, you could live a genuine urban existence in any one of Pasadena, Santa Monica, Echo Park, Los Feliz, Korea Town, etc. They have the most progressive transportation planning of any North American city right now.
 
Hipster Duck said:
Los Angeles/Riverside = 85. I can't help but like the largest sprawl of them all. The funny thing is that it has as many urban neighbourhoods as Toronto, but they are all so far flung from one another that you invariably end up taking the car to go from one to another (which makes the urban attributes argument sort of moot). Still, you could live a genuine urban existence in any one of Pasadena, Santa Monica, Echo Park, Los Feliz, Korea Town, etc. They have the most progressive transportation planning of any North American city right now.
Click to expand...

I've never been to L.A., but am curious if anybody here has tried their light rail lines? Just looking at them, I always think TO can learn a thing or to (Transit City, anybody?). Can anybody speak to this? Or their BRT network for that matter.
 
Toronto = 100

Canada
Quebec: 70
- It may be a small town, but the amount of history within it is remarkable. Friendly people and very cultured. Good restaurants and shopping. This town has a good vibe. Good looking broads don't hurt either.
Montreal: 90
- Similar to Quebec City in all aspects except just on a larger scale.
Ottawa: 65
- Interesting to see the capital of the nation and all the various attractions. Neat city.
Hamilton: 40
- Nothing to see or do here. Desolate downtown and awful pollution. Located on a nice spot off the escarpment however.
KW: 40
- Nice cluster of areas. Some interesting spots in Waterloo, although it is a pretty big dump if you ask me.
London: 40
- Pretty dumpy place. UWO isn't too bad a place to check out if you're down for a good time.
Calgary: 73
- Love the sunshine. Great to see this place developing. Really fun town overall.
Vancouver: 98
- Beautiful city, climate isn't too bad (minus the rain), great vibe, lots to be done here. Only problem is it's a bit TOO small.
Victoria: 80
- Very beautiful city as well. Tad too small, not a whole lot to be done.

US Northeast
New York: 150
- New York is everything Toronto strives to be and more. Culture, nightlife, shopping, attractions. Anything you want, it's in NYC. Some spots need some revitilization if you ask me. (Bronx, Queens, Brooklyn etc...)
Philadelphia: 90
- Nice historically significant city. Other than that, has nothing else that Toronto can't offer really.

US Rust Belt
Buffalo: 30
- GHETTO! Some shopping to be done here at low prices however.
Cleveland: 25
- Even more GHETTO!
Detroit: 20
- Watch 8 Mile and you'll see why Detroit sucks.

US South
Charlotte + Raleigh/Durham: 55
- Boring place. Decent weather at least.
Atlanta: 65
- Some cool sights (Coke Museum), but not too great other than that.
Savannah: 68
- Nice town with a lot of history.
Jacksonville: 50
- Didn't they start filming "COPS" here way back when?
Tampa/St Pete: 68
- Love the beaches and the weather. Fairly small place however.
Miami: 95
- Great weather (most of the time), hot women, amazing beaches. Truly an exotic paradise. Stay away from the dangerous areas, and there are numerous.
New Orleans: 60
- Was here in 2005, literally 2 weeks before Hurricane Katrina. Aside from the history, friendly people and good food, you could see this place was a mess even before the ocean rolled in. Numerous gang shootings happened every night and you could see the poverty of some of the folks here. This town has a good vibe no doubt, but there are a lot of glaring issues.

US Midwest

Chicago: 115
- Great town and very similar to Toronto, only better if you ask me. Downtown and North-Side areas are spectacular. Stay away from the Southside or anywhere near Gary, Indiana. In spite of Chicago's great reputation, there's a lot of poverty and violence here, much more so than Toronto.
St. Louis: 60
- Okay to visit. Some cool sights, namely the St. Louis Arch, but other than that, it's not that great of a place.

US Mountain Statesa

Salt Lake: 80
- Beautiful scenery and mountain ranges. Too bad mormon rule has made Salt Lake City "Boringville USA."
Las Vegas: 90
Love the "Strip" and all the nightlife and attractions. Beautiful landscape as well, and the warm weather is a plus. Northen L.V. is a dump however and is a place not well known to the general public- and for good reason.


US West Coast

Los Angeles/Riverside: 150
- Absolutely love LA. The weather, the beaches, the sunshine, Hollywood, EVERYTHING. Absolutely beautiful place. This town has an amazing vibe, and honestly, who really cares about the smog and the car usage? We're all gonna die someday aren't we? South LA kind of taints the rep however. As for Riverside, not too much to do to be honest, but hey I'd take living in continual sunshine over 5 months of snow!

San Diego: 105
- Kinda like LA, but on a much smaller scale. Very wealthy areas surround San Diego, and the weather can't be beat. Gotta love the beaches too.
 
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Oh, that.

Well, my rankings were somewhat jokey, but my experience has been that many Vancouverites are convinced that they live in the greatest city on the planet without really having checked into it that thoroughly, and fairly regularly over the years their opinion has been bolstered by those simplistic city ranking polls that pass themselves off as being comprehensive and scientific, unlike this one of course. All that said, that's not much of a complaint, is it? Vancouver is a pretty great place after all...

42
 
Wow, I'm kind of impressed that so many people have been to so many of these cities. Now I feel somewhat under-travelled.

Canada
Quebec - 70. The old parts are walkable, but also geared for tourists. The parts of town I saw that were more for the locals didn't seem to have the same charm, amenities, or density.
Montreal - 90. The transit isn't as good as Toronto's, but the culture and amenities are almost as good (they lose points for, surprisingly, not having the same cosmopolitan flair as Toronto).
Ottawa - 65. I actually like Ottawa, tho I also recognize it's a bit deficient on things like transit and walkability. There's an amazing range of things to see and do for a city that size, I love the Market, and they do have solid galleries and museums.
Hamilton - 35. The downtown depresses me, and the burbs aren't much better. They get points mostly for Dundas Valley, and for proximity to Toronto.
KW - 45. I rank it ahead of Hamilton probably because I expect less from it. The downtowns aren't much at all, nor is the transit or amenities, but I think there's a bit of charm in the neighbouring small towns (St. Jacobs, Elora, et al.) Kind of pointless to live there without a car tho.
London - 35. Has a few bright spots, but it's an ugly city. Not much to do. Just kind of meh.
Edmonton - 65. A city where a pedestrian can really only use the streets six months of the year, and its been built to reflect that.
Calgary - 70. I guess kind of the same as Edmonton, tho there's something about Calgary that I prefer. Not sure if I can pin it down exactly, I just do.
Vancouver - 75. I know most people really like it, but I found it alternately sterile and slummy. There was no happy medium of urban grit, and it turned me off of the city.
Victoria - 105. My favourite Canadian city, tho I think of it as a retirement destination more than anything. Perfectly scaled, naturally beautiful, small town feel in a large centre.

US Northeast
New York - 500. It can't even be on the same scale as Toronto or any of the rest. I don't know where to start so I won't.
Washington DC - 35. I lived here awhile, and ended up hating it despite an honest attempt to explore and really get to know the place. The entire core of the city is open only M-F 9-5. The transit system looks impressive, but didn't take into account any logical ridership patterns when it was built, forcing everyone to transfer multiple times to get anywhere. The racial segregation that persists to this day is terrifying. The income stratification is worse (albeit strongly correlated). There are isolated pockets of civilization in DC itself (Dupont Circle, Adams Morgan, Georgetown), and Alexandria is a short Metro ride away, and that's the only reason I gave the place as many points as I did.

US Mountain States
Las Vegas - 10. Cheesy, tacky, crass. Pain in the ass to walk anywhere on the new strip because of the pedestrian overpasses, and the way the buildings are set way back from the street (Bellagio is the worst offender). If you try to drive the traffic is brutal. It's all sprawl once you leave the strip. Old strip isn't bad, but it's only a few blocks, which is why it's only worth 10 points.
 
interchange42 said:
Oh, that.

Well, my rankings were somewhat jokey, but my experience has been that many Vancouverites are convinced that they live in the greatest city on the planet without really having checked into it that thoroughly, and fairly regularly over the years their opinion has been bolstered by those simplistic city ranking polls that pass themselves off as being comprehensive and scientific, unlike this one of course. All that said, that's not much of a complaint, is it? Vancouver is a pretty great place after all...

42
Click to expand...

Hahaha, I laughed at this post. Everything is completely true. Being at UBC, there's huge anti-Toronto sentiment amongst the Vancouverites. Great city don't get me wrong, but Toronto is what, more than 3 times its size? They can't stand being number 3 in Canada.
 
OK, if Toronto = 100:

Canada

Halifax = 40 desolate downtown, but cute little maritime houses.

Quebec = 80 amazing history, great nightlife, I wish they'd ban cars inside the city walls, needs better transit

Montreal = 85 big, urban, good transit, although complicated fares

Ottawa = 70 besides all the museums, its not much. Needs better transit

Hamilton = hellhole = 20 downtown is crap, the little town of Dundas nearby boosts points. I like the way the roads go up the escarpment.

KW = 50 not much there now, but if it goes in the right direction, could be a great city. Cambridge has great attractions.

London = 40 not much to do there. Has one cool office tower.

Winnipeg = 60 very nice and big city. many points taken of due to bad transit.

Edmonton = 50 booooring. like the pedestrian malls, the LRT is pretty convenient.

Calgary = 67 better then Edmonton. Proximity to ski centres boosts ranking. Average transit. Way too oil-dependent like most of Alberta.

Vancouver = 80 pretty awesome, their huge hatred for Toronto reduces points

Victoria = 80 very nice small-town appeal in a medium-sized city. Streets too small LOL

US

Boston = 30 pretty overrated, I went there once and was like "OK, now what?"

Providence = -1 TLS beats its downtown, and TLS is 0, therefore

New York = 130 too much crime and horrible traffic, but other than that, self explanitory

Washington DC = 50 never been there, but the subway is good, and i understand there's a ridiculous height limit on buildings.

Buffalo = 40 blah whatever

Detroit = crap, AKA 10, only because of its proximity to Canada ;)

Miami = 19 Looks AMAZING in CSI Miami, pretty lame in person

Chicago = 100 never been there, but it has very interesting buildings and is pretty dense for the US. Toronto's twin.

Las Vegas = 45 tacky, crappy, terrible for walking around. I like all the different themed hotels, but sometimes, they are really too much.

Seattle = 70 well organized city, needs better public transit, loses majorly as it is the headquarters of Starbucks, and evil corporation;). The Space Needle is very stylish, and I actually prefer it to the CN tower, forgetting the height

San Francisco = 100 awesome city, awesome bridge, the suburbs aren't to big. The big pointy building is awesome. The metro is crap, but the historic cable cars are great.

Los Angeles/Riverside = 30 city center is OK, the rest is kilometres upon kilometres of sprawling suburbs

San Diego = 60 much like LA, only way better, the freeways actually move during rush hour

Honolulu = 70 gotta love Hawaii
 
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