Racial Slur Allegedly Used Towards CFRB Reporter

[theowne]

As evidenced in this thread, racial slurs against white people "are never really bad", and therefore acceptable, a perceived slur against a non white person, however, means that you're a bigot, with no chance to defend ytourself, nor even express an opinion.

We really have to stop doing the whole "I'm a sad lonely victim" thing. No matter how unfair you think it is, calling a black person the N-word will always be much harsher than most names towards almost any ethnic groups because while those other names are offensive and bigoted, they also do not carry as much history of persecution as those towards black people (I think the same would apply to racial epithets towards Jewish people). People do not consider those names towards white people as bad because there is less history of persecution there. If this makes any of us feel like a poor victim, well, too bad. Personally, I have never lost any sleep over it.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

We really have to stop doing the whole "I'm a sad lonely victim" thing. No matter how unfair you think it is, calling a black person the N-word will always be much harsher than most names towards almost any ethnic groups because while those other names are offensive and bigoted, they also do not carry as much history of persecution as those towards black people (I think the same would apply to racial epithets towards Jewish people). People do not consider those names towards white people as bad because there is less history of persecution there. If this makes any of us feel like a poor victim, well, too bad. Personally, I have never lost any sleep over it.

it makes sense. the word is such a weapon because of recent history. unfortunately, there is a consequence from being victimized. by being hurt you acknowledge to the oppressor that their weapon of choice is effective which means that they will use it in the future. there is also a consequence if it is not taken seriously. it takes away from the severity of the situations of the past and might make them appear less important.

caution should be taken when expelling someone from employment or some position for the use of the word. it would be better IMO to focus on why they used the word rather then because they said a word. a good way to fire a person would be to say that because they resorted to the use of the word, they are too ignorant to be employed. so the focus would be on the ignorance of the oppressor/aggressor rather than on the victim.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

It means that, if you're not black, you're a racist, despite what you may do or think or say.
As evidenced in this thread, racial slurs against white people "are never really bad", and therefore acceptable, a perceived slur against a non white person, however, means that you're a bigot, with no chance to defend ytourself, nor even express an opinion.

How 'black' does one have to be to 'get a pass' at the work 'nigga'?

Why do some people perpetuate the stereotype of an ignorant person, and then 'qualify' it with a "smily"....what a hypocritical joke this is!

Listen I-Z1... er bjl, no one here is saying minorities get a free pass to utter racial epiphets at white people. What I am saying is that because of historic oppressor/oppressed dogma that worked in favor of whites (slaveowners, Western European society) and against minority laborers (Native genocide, African slavery, indentured Indian/Chinese labour, Jewish ghettoes); and the superior/inferior mentality and language associated with such a relationship, racial epiphets have a greater mental impact for non-whites than whites.

I'm sure Mystery White Boy and Hydrogen aren't black but if used to the proper context as they've had, I won't be offended by someone uttering that word. The fact that I can laugh at myself once in a while and embrace my ad hominen circumstance doesn't make me ignorant but witful and saavy .

However people with the deliberate intent to verbally rape and maim a black person with that word, on the basis of hatred does disgust me and isn't well-adjusted enough to co-exist within our society.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Sort of off-topic, I was watching the evening news on Global yesterday, where they did an exposé on the success of Black-focused schools in Detroit. I was fascinated to know africentric schools had a 70% graduation rate in stark constrast to only 30% in the general school system. Alot of what they're doing I've already heard would be implemented here, including demanding parents play a greater role in school life and of course africentricity being interwoven into the cirricula. Anyway here's an anecdote from a black academic whose suffered through the harsest of times in the public system and now supports black-focused schools:

Desegregation pioneer open to black-focused schools
Last Updated: Friday, February 29, 2008 | 11:38 AM ET
CBC News

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2008/02/29/ot-black-080229.html

A woman who was on the front lines of the fight against segregation in U.S. schools 50 years ago said she isn't opposed to the idea of black-focused schools like the one recently approved by the Toronto Board of Education.

"You know, I'm all for integration, but it's got to work for everybody," said Minnijean Brown Trickey, 66, at an event at Ottawa's Carleton University Thursday night.

"I think a dominant society is not aware of how much it sort of wants everybody to be… the same," said Minnijean Brown Trickey.
(CBC)

Trickey, who lived in Ottawa through most of the 1990s and earned a social work degree from Carleton, added that the push for black-focused schools in Ontario signals a concern within the community.

"So that insistence or that concern points to a problem. And we need to look at what that problem is and start working it out."

In 1957, when she was 15, Trickey was one of the "Little Rock Nine," the first group of black high school students to attend Central High School in Little Rock, Ark., which had previously been open to white students only.
Being part of the forced desegregation, assisted by a court injunction and federal troops, was a "horrific experience," Trickey told CBC in an interview Thursday.

"A lot of violence, terror, lost jobs of our parents, brutal attacks inside the school — pretty horrible," she said.

But Trickey said even though she battled segregation, she recognizes that there has been a problem with black underachievement that the idea of black-focused schools is intended to address.

"It's another way of trying to insert maybe some cultural knowledge," she said. "I think a dominant society is not aware of how much it sort of wants everybody to be … the same."

In an address to Carleton University's alumni association Thursday evening, Trickey described a personal experience that highlighted some of the concerns about black students in the current system.

She recalled how a guidance counsellor at Ottawa's Lisgar High School told her daughter she "should not aspire to college."

"I'm not talking abstractions. I'm not talking about somebody else," she said. "I'm talking about my own children's experience."

When asked by CBC about her thoughts at seeing a black man and a woman run for the U.S. Democratic presidential nomination, Trickey said she was heartened, but can't help asking why it took so long.

"It says more about who we are than who they are in terms of how thrilled we are that this is happening," she said, adding that there's still much to be done in the fight for equality.

"There's a song that says freedom is a constant struggle," she said. "So I accept that and am energized by that."

 

[Hydrogen]

She recalled how a guidance counsellor at Ottawa's Lisgar High School told her daughter she "should not aspire to college."

Well, my high school guidance counsellor recommended I go into a trade and skip university. Several degrees suggests she was wrong.

 

[EnviroTO]

It's another way of trying to insert maybe some cultural knowledge

Another way is to offer additional elective courses inside normal schools. Yet another way is to go live in a different country for example to go to school in France to learn French or to join CISV to experience a different culture. I would think that the culture you don't know is the culture you aren't a part of. No course can tell you who you are.

If a person in France doesn't feel French and feels discriminated against and wants to be more accepted then how much of a solution is it for that person to immerse themselves in German culture? If you walk into a workplace looking for a job and everyone in there is wearing a collared shirt then wear a collared shirt to the interview and if everyone is wearing workout pants then wear workout pants. The purpose of school is to prepare for work and, when you go get a job, figuring out how well you will integrate with existing staff is something that employers will consider. I've seen many people turned down for jobs (wrongly in my opinion) due to lack of Canadian experience and these were white and Asian people. How is having gone to a black school going to show an employer you can integrate well and have Canadian experience?

What exactly is the problem that this school is going to provide a solution for? Grades are just a number... write down 90 on all the report cards of black people if grades are really the problem. If the problem is drop out rates then move classes to a rec centre with sports, video games, food, and TV. If the problem is that black students aren't fitting in and aren't getting good grades in the current curriculum then having a black school doesn't solve the problem, it simply masks it. You haven't solved a "fitting in" problem by isolating and you haven't solved a problem with grades in the current curriculum by changing the curriculum. It is like raising the speed limit to 500km/h to deal with too many people speeding. Sure you will be able to say nobody is breaking the law speeding anymore but the problem wasn't really addressed. You can't solve problems by hiding from them.

She recalled how a guidance counsellor at Ottawa's Lisgar High School told her daughter she "should not aspire to college."

What were her grades or is that somehow irrelevant to the topic? I've been told to drop courses based on mid-term marks which I was able to pull up to respectable grades due to high marks on finals and labs.

 

[bjl]

She recalled how a guidance counsellor at Ottawa's Lisgar High School told her daughter she "should not aspire to college."

Poor thing, too bad she couldn't think for herself, take an initiative, and do for herself, instead, she willingly let one person control her life...poor thing.

My guidance councillor told me I shouldn't attempt anything involving math...I got my engineering degree with honours....math included.

It's extrememly hypocritical to exclaim, "you don't own me", and then do whatever you're told to do.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

Another way is to offer additional elective courses inside normal schools. Yet another way is to go live in a different country for example to go to school in France to learn French or to join CISV to experience a different culture. I would think that the culture you don't know is the culture you aren't a part of. No course can tell you who you are.

But is Canada an assimilist melting pot or rather a multicultural democracy? If the only media representations blacks see of themselves is suspect headshots in the 6 o'clock news, what moralizing drive do they have to succeed? Subject matter can in fact influence behaviours, attitudes, self-esteem. Dominant culture tells blacks their anti-establishment, uneducated, inferior and it's disparaging to see so much potential squandered becausee black youth have lost all motivation and have succumbed to mediocrity.

I want better for my community than that. I want more students in the university, lecture halls with me, such that I'm not a miraculous token but proof that I belong there and others like me belong there.

If a person in France doesn't feel French and feels discriminated against and wants to be more accepted then how much of a solution is it for that person to immerse themselves in German culture?

Wow a Frenchmen being told to act French or else be ostracized and condemned by society. Gee why does that sound familiar? Oh right, that's what assimilist peer pressure is all about, an unwillingness of others to accept/tolerate social deviance or a cultural background atypical of their own.

So what you're saying is that one's individuality/heritage/culture/identity/ad hominen is meaningless and they should just sacrifice themselves to conform to North American imperial cultural hegemony?

If you walk into a workplace looking for a job and everyone in there is wearing a collared shirt then wear a collared shirt to the interview and if everyone is wearing workout pants then wear workout pants. The purpose of school is to prepare for work and, when you go get a job, figuring out how well you will integrate with existing staff is something that employers will consider. I've seen many people turned down for jobs (wrongly in my opinion) due to lack of Canadian experience and these were white and Asian people.

Maybe blacks didn't even consider they had a fair shot at those job fields to try out. Maybe the insular nature of those businesses meant blacks weren't even aware these jobs existed. There are many oppurtunities beyond school life to integrate (extracurriculars, sports, tournaments, neighborhoods, community centres, part-time jobs, church activities, mentoring). The fact that a black kid and a white kid can only socialize during school hours doesn't sound remotely like an organic relationship but rather forced circumstances.

How is having gone to a black school going to show an employer you can integrate well and have Canadian experience?

Because the students attending this school wouldn't have been going to school otherwise. Hence no graduation diploma, no prospects, no future, no pity from employers to give these 'unqualified' youth a chance. Education effectively becomes the new segregator.

What exactly is the problem that this school is going to provide a solution for? Grades are just a number... write down 90 on all the report cards of black people if grades are really the problem. If the problem is drop out rates then move classes to a rec centre with sports, video games, food, and TV.

So that the white establishment can turn around and say all black applicants got a free pass via affirmative action? The purpose of black-focused achools is to promote africentricity, good work ethics, boost self-esteems and demand discipline. That sounds alot better than having the black kids run wild with total disregard by the teacher in general schools. Why would a classroom be moved to place of distraction and temptation if the goal is to produce graduates who have earned their diplomas?

If the problem is that black students aren't fitting in and aren't getting good grades in the current curriculum then having a black school doesn't solve the problem, it simply masks it. You haven't solved a "fitting in" problem by isolating and you haven't solved a problem with grades in the current curriculum by changing the curriculum. It is like raising the speed limit to 500km/h to deal with too many people speeding. Sure you will be able to say nobody is breaking the law speeding anymore but the problem wasn't really addressed. You can't solve problems by hiding from them.

But this isn't hiding from the problem of black dropouts. If anything this is the most reactive thing to do. I think some of the onus on fitting in should be extended to the white/Asian kids as well who often formulate exclusive cliques from day one and are unwaveringly cold towards black pupils attempting to break the ice with them.

What were her grades or is that somehow irrelevant to the topic? I've been told to drop courses based on mid-term marks which I was able to pull up to respectable grades due to high marks on finals and labs.

Given the context of the article one can infer it was a racial slight that the student felt was being made against her.

Poor thing, too bad she couldn't think for herself, take an initiative, and do for herself, instead, she willingly let one person control her life...poor thing.It's extrememly hypocritical to exclaim, "you don't own me", and then do whatever you're told to do.

I think she did take some initiative by coming forward with her grievances to her mother. One of the most important things to remember is that it takes a village to raise a child. No parent would stand for their children suffering and do whatever it takes to save them. If that means removing the child from a hostile counterintuitive learning environment and placing her in a safe haven of like-minded individuals with a responsibility to their community, families and self to succeed (unlike the general system where nothing's expected of you), then move power to them.

I think watching BET/MTV seeing pimps/druggies/hos, going outside seeing gangs on the street-corner, going to the park seeing whites walking ever so faster when a black approaches, seeing workplaces with little diversity- these all contribute to society telling a black youth what they should do. Showing blacks that there's life and hope beyond their daily realities isn't an order or demand, it's an call to action to liberation of self.

 

[theowne]

So what you're saying is that one's individuality/heritage/culture/identity/ad hominen is meaningless and they should just sacrifice themselves to conform to North American imperial cultural hegemony?

There does have to be a balance between the two. No one suggests a strict monocultural society - Canada had a strong multicultural society ever since it began with the French and the English. But at the same time, it's dangerous to go down the path of separation and division. Individuality is excessive if it means that asking a person from Toronto, what are you, they will say they are Muslim or Chinese or Black or Indian. No, what we should be striving for is that they should recognize themselves as Canadians. And all these segregated schools do not help that at all. I mean, when I used to take a World Issues course, we were asked to sort of identify ourselves and only a few people said they identified as "Canadians".

Multiculturalism needs to be balanced with a strong sense of unity and understanding. And this can never be achieved while this sort of separation exists.

Seriously, this whole idea is scaring me. I think if we continue on the trend Canada seems to be going on, it won't be good for our society. We should be a multicultural society with a strong sense of unity. As long as you have separation and isolation this can never happen. Sadly I think we are going the opposite direction. When I was in elementary school, I honestly never even thought about race until perhaps the age of 14 or 15. It's not a joke, I don't know why I didn't, but that's just how it was. I'm not trying to say I was a good tolerant moral boy or anything, the ideas literally just never crossed my mind. But the other day I heard a child in the bus stop talking about her "asian friend", and it seems harmless but it just struck me as a difference between my childhood and hers.

The fact that a black kid and a white kid can only socialize during school hours doesn't sound remotely like an organic relationship but rather forced circumstances.

But you're simplifying this - before school, children only really have contact with close family or friends of the family. School is where children grow and develop. It's where their ideas and perspectives and opinions are formed. And school is where many friendships begin. I did not have any contact with black people before school. It's only in school that, learning together, you establish a sense of understanding and closeness.

 

[EnviroTO]

But is Canada an assimilist melting pot or rather a multicultural democracy?

What happens in school and work are completely separate from what happens outside school and work. Nobody can tell someone what music they should like and what they should wear at home but expecting to show up at band class with Kiss face paint and expecting to play heavy metal just because you like that music doesn't make sense. What percentage of the population shows up in school and likes all the classes? What percentage of people show up for their mandatory music class and can't wait to play Mozart or show up in English class excited about Shakespeare? Whether or not todays students can relate to Mozart and Shakespeare is irrelevant. If the common curriculum has Mozart and Shakespeare in it then that is what students should be prepared to learn. If the curriculum needs tuning then tune it for everyone.

Wow a Frenchmen being told to act French or else be ostracized and condemned by society. Gee why does that sound familiar? Oh right, that's what assimilist peer pressure is all about, an unwillingness of others to accept/tolerate social deviance or a cultural background atypical of their own.

Who said anything about being condemned by society? I only said he "feels like he doesn't fit in". Feeling like you fit in is a self-analysis, not the analysis of someone else. If people want to feel like they fit in they need to find their commonalities with the mainstream, not diverge further from it. Culture, religion, and to some degree politics has no place in school and work.

So what you're saying is that one's individuality/heritage/culture/identity/ad hominen is meaningless and they should just sacrifice themselves to conform to North American imperial cultural hegemony?

No. If you want to run around the track clockwise in your spare time that is fine but if you want to compete in the 800m you are going to have to run counter-clockwise a distance of 800m. Nobody cares that you might like to run clockwise 600m.

Maybe blacks didn't even consider they had a fair shot at those job fields to try out. Maybe the insular nature of those businesses meant blacks weren't even aware these jobs existed.

What? Blacks don't know that jobs with collared shirts exist?

There are many oppurtunities beyond school life to integrate (extracurriculars, sports, tournaments, neighborhoods, community centres, part-time jobs, church activities, mentoring). The fact that a black kid and a white kid can only socialize during school hours doesn't sound remotely like an organic relationship but rather forced circumstances.

Maybe it is forced but outside work and school people congregate with people like themselves. Birds of a feather flock together. Outdoorsy types aren't likely going to be hanging out with couch potatoes. Most people find their friends and mates in school and work.

Because the students attending this school wouldn't have been going to school otherwise. Hence no graduation diploma, no prospects, no future, no pity from employers to give these 'unqualified' youth a chance. Education effectively becomes the new segregator.

Why would this school change that? Employers will be able to ask what school they graduated from. If you put Harvard on a resume it means something different than Nowhere State U. If the curriculum has changed their graduating will not have proven readiness for a work place or university environment which still requires the same skillsets they did before.

So that the white establishment can turn around and say all black applicants got a free pass via affirmative action? The purpose of black-focused achools is to promote africentricity, good work ethics, boost self-esteems and demand discipline. That sounds alot better than having the black kids run wild with total disregard by the teacher in general schools. Why would a classroom be moved to place of distraction and temptation if the goal is to produce graduates who have earned their diplomas?

The establishment will still be able to say that these student got a free pass. Winning by changing the rules or running a completely different race isn't winning.

Why should "africentricity" be promoted? Isn't that like promoting "cultural purity"?

But this isn't hiding from the problem of black dropouts. If anything this is the most reactive thing to do.

The point of school is to learn specific things and to be graded against a common criteria to determine success.

I think some of the onus on fitting in should be extended to the white/Asian kids as well who often formulate exclusive cliques from day one and are unwaveringly cold towards black pupils attempting to break the ice with them.

I can't really speak to the Toronto high school experience having grown up in London Ontario but at the downtown school I went to people divided up based on personal interests and personalities and not race. People who were on the basketball team all got along regardless of race. People in the band all got along together regardless of race. People who are "forced" together end up getting along (i.e. you don't pick your band mates and fellow basketball team members).

Given the context of the article one can infer it was a racial slight that the student felt was being made against her.

One can easily jump to conclusions that are incorrect though. The student might have felt it was a racial slight but was it? Some people are extra sensitive to critique and will take any negative comment as being precipitated due to race, attractiveness, sex, religion, etc.

 

[St. Even]

from today's Star....

Arena employee faces unspecified punishment
Mar 04, 2008 04:30 AM
Vanessa Lu
City Hall Bureau Chief

The management at North Toronto Memorial Arena has formally apologized to a radio reporter after an investigation found one of its employees used a racial insult.

In a letter to Amber Gero, board chair Gord Thompson said the employee's later behaviour could also be seen as "intimidating." He said what the individual did and said was unacceptable.

The confrontation took place last month when Gero was interviewing people outside the city-owned arena for their views on proposed hikes to the cost of rink permits.

Gero said she was on her cellphone, filing a report to her newsroom, when the employee came up and told her to move her car out of the arena lot.

She said they exchanged words and moments later, as she began driving away, the man called her a "f------ n-----."

Gero said she stopped her car and said to him, "What did you say? Is that what you're calling me?"

When she got out of the car, he went back into the arena and returned to confront her with another employee "who denied that the comment was made, even though he wasn't there," she said.

When the argument continued, Gero called police.

After the incident, Gero told the Star she was shocked that in "this day and age, that's the first thing you're going to say when you get into an argument with a black person? And this is someone who works for our city."

Thompson, who could not be reached for comment last night, said in the letter that disciplinary action has been taken against the employee, but gave no specifics. He added that all the arena's employees will undergo diversity training.

Gero said she was pleased to see that the board acknowledged the employee used the slur.

"I would have liked to have been informed what the punishment was, to see how seriously the board took the matter," she said.

As well, she said she was a little disappointed to receive an apology by mail instead of a phone call.

"No member of the board has tried to contact me," she said.

When asked earlier about the investigation, Thompson said the public has no right to know whether the complaint is upheld or what disciplinary action results.

"This should never have gone public in the first place. It got more publicity, I think, than it deserved," he said last month.

 

[bjl]

We really have to stop doing the whole "I'm a sad lonely victim" thing.

wow, you're such a hypocrite, you talked yourself into a full circle.

If this makes any of us feel like a poor victim, well, too bad.

calling a black person the N-word will always be much harsher than most names towards almost any ethnic groups

...because, black people are special, and require delicate, special handling.

 

[DENTROBATE54]

from today's Star....

Thompson, who could not be reached for comment last night, said in the letter that disciplinary action has been taken against the employee, but gave no specifics. He added that all the arena's employees will undergo diversity training.

"I would have liked to have been informed what the punishment was, to see how seriously the board took the matter," she said.

As well, she said she was a little disappointed to receive an apology by mail instead of a phone call.

"No member of the board has tried to contact me," she said.

See, I told you nothing would come of this so-called disciplinary action. Another racist just got his slap on the wrist, if even that, and now life's back to normal for the NTMA . They didn't even have the common human decency to acknowledge Ms. Gero with a courtesy call, grovelling their condolences for harboring employees with those thoughts in their midst. I see nothing's really changed since the Civil Rights era after all, except for every other minority group that's benefited from black's frontline risks.

I'd like to have been privy to that cultural sensitivity training they're opining about, cause obviously it ain't working and if the NTMA's solution is to pretend the incident never happened or that it didn't affect anyone ("This should never have gone public in the first place. It got more publicity, I think, than it deserved") then they're setting an ugly precedent of corporations sheilding deceitful bigots from proper channels of accountability and corrective discipline.

...because, black people are special, and require delicate, special handling.

Historically blacks were never allowed to reach their full potential as a civilization because outer forces constantly dictated the course of their futures. Massive pre-contact kingdoms and dynasties (Kush, Nubia, Ashanti) were pillaged and exploited from invading conquerors (Muslims, Phoenicians, Greeks, Romans) and in the modern era by British, Dutch, Spanish, French, Belgian, German, Portugese and Italian imperialists. This is very unlike Asia which despite colonialism was still able to advance as a people and culture(s) and is regarded with much more reverance than what whites connotate to blacks.

But to answer your statement. The legacy of lost identity (connection to Africa/Africentricity), slavery and subsequent segregation/stereotyping make blacks as a 'cultural group' more sensitive to derrogatory remarks than say a white person who might laugh off being compared to a cracker. The racial slurs don't carry the same stigma, public humiliation and personal erosion of self-esteem. To call a well-to-do upper middle class resident of palacial exclusive gated communities a cracker is very different from viscerating someone from the projects who can't find decent work, as the white-collar sector truly is 'white' collar, with the N-word. It's a give and take and as long as blacks aren't on equal footing with the other races in terms of wealth, status and quality of life there'll always be a greater hurt afflicted on them by racial slurs, IMHO.

 

[dowlingm]

Well, my high school guidance counsellor recommended I go into a trade and skip university. Several degrees suggests she was wrong.

And when you've paid enough contractors to fix your stuff you'll think you were wrong

 

[theowne]

wow, you're such a hypocrite, you talked yourself into a full circle.




...because, black people are special, and require delicate, special handling.

Er...okay then. I'll ignore the first sentence since it doesn't make much sense. How am I a hypocrite? Because I allow a reasonable evaluation of historical and social concerns to color my judgment rather than childish exclamations of "it's not fair!!!"?

Also, you quoted a statement I made, cut out the explanation for the statement, then acted as if I provided no explanation with a sarcastic remark...I explained perfectly well why the N-word is more harmful then a slur towards most other ethnic groups. Any person of reasonable intelligence would be able to understand that.

Are you feeling alright over there?