Quran burning: How media and world leaders are the ones pouring gas on the flames?

[Dan416]

I think they should burn both the bible and the quran. Add in a torah too, for good luck.


And all those against freedoms like various repressive religions, which I dare not name, can go cry to their mommy.

I agree with you. I'd rather live in a world where we can burn books, especially "holy books" without recrimination rather than one where people's lives are threatened for immoral behaviour http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/world/europe/28iht-chechnya.html?ref=world

Personally I think there should be more cartoons of Mohammed. No matter how much it inflames Muslims, we can't allow that to dissuade us from freedom of speech (as long as its not hateful).

 

[doady]

I agree with you. I'd rather live in a world where we can burn books, especially "holy books" without recrimination rather than one where people's lives are threatened for immoral behaviour http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/world/europe/28iht-chechnya.html?ref=world

Personally I think there should be more cartoons of Mohammed. No matter how much it inflames Muslims, we can't allow that to dissuade us from freedom of speech (as long as its not hateful).

I'm not sure what the cartoons of Mohammed have to do with freedom of speech. You don't need draw a picture of Mohammed to criticize Muslims or Islam.

The same way you don't need to use the word "cracker" or "redneck" to be critical of slavery, or the word "nigger" to be critical of homophobia in hip hop. You don't need to be insulting or disrespectful to be critical of something.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

I'm not sure what the cartoons of Mohammed have to do with freedom of speech. You don't need draw a picture of Mohammed to criticize Muslims or Islam.

The same way you don't need to use the word "cracker" or "redneck" to be critical of slavery, or the word "nigger" to be critical of homophobia in hip hop. You don't need to be insulting or disrespectful to be critical of something.

you don't need to draw cartoons to criticize islam but you could to criticize the restriction the religion and some people want to impose in relation to simply drawing a picture.

also, don't conflate racism with disrespect to religion. someone's genetic identity or recent geographic origin is nothing to hate or something that can be changed. there really is no rational reason to criticize a person with respect to those matters. drawing a picture of mohammed because you are being defiant against some people who want to kill you for simply drawing a picture is not the same as calling a black person the N-word because that person is homophobic. being black doesn't cause someone to be homophobic but your religion can cause you to kill someone over some trivial matter such as drawing a picture or burning a book.

 

[Second_in_pie]

you don't need to draw cartoons to criticize islam but you could to criticize the restriction the religion and some people want to impose in relation to simply drawing a picture.

also, don't conflate racism with disrespect to religion. someone's genetic identity or recent geographic origin is nothing to hate or something that can be changed. there really is no rational reason to criticize a person with respect to those matters. drawing a picture of mohammed because you are being defiant against some people who want to kill you for simply drawing a picture is not the same as calling a black person the N-word because that person is homophobic. being black doesn't cause someone to be homophobic but your religion can cause you to kill someone over some trivial matter such as drawing a picture or burning a book.

If you'd like to criticize Islamic extremists through use of media, then you're fine to do that, just as you're fine to criticize homophobes in the hip hop community.

But there's still one fallacy that crosses the line, mixing up extremists with the community as a whole. It's just a fallacious argument to say that Islam as a whole is full of dangerous extremists, or that all rappers are homophobic. I certainly wouldn't destroy a K'naan or Eminem CD to make a point against the gangsta rap community. If you want to burn something, why not burn an effigy of Osama Bin Laden or Mohammed Omar? You're actually getting a point across there; that terrorism and extremism is not tolerated. What do you say when you burn the Qur'an? "I hate Islam and all Muslims."

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

But there's still one fallacy that crosses the line, mixing up extremists with the community as a whole. It's just a fallacious argument to say that Islam as a whole is full of dangerous extremists, or that all rappers are homophobic. I certainly wouldn't destroy a K'naan or Eminem CD to make a point against the gangsta rap community. If you want to burn something, why not burn an effigy of Osama Bin Laden or Mohammed Omar? You're actually getting a point across there; that terrorism and extremism is not tolerated. What do you say when you burn the Qur'an? "I hate Islam and all Muslims."

i never made those assumptions. also, burning a quran may mean you hate islam but it doesn't automatically mean you hate muslims. destroying a marijuana crop doesn't mean you hate cannabis users. if you don't like that example, here's another: i hate my parents religion but i don't hate my parents.

 

[Second_in_pie]

It's implied. And when you have people that dedicate themselves to following it's teachings, it becomes a calling out against them. How do you think that a physicist would feel if someone came up to them and said that quantum mechanics is the stupidest idea ever, then burned a copy of A Brief History of Time? It's not even as directly related as burning the Qur'an, but I'm sure they'd still feel deeply offended.

And you didn't say it, but it comes with your defence of it's legitimacy. Burning the Qur'an is not any logical form of protest, and serves far more to inflame ethnic and religious tensions, as well as intending to degrade a single religion which over 1 billion people adhere to. That's really bordering on the definition of a hate crime.

EDIT: In the case of your parents, if your parents believed even mildly in their religion and you said you hated it, do you not think that they'd feel offended or angry? If you told a republican that you hated the party, you'd get a lot of stick for that.

 

[doady]

you don't need to draw cartoons to criticize islam but you could to criticize the restriction the religion and some people want to impose

The restrictions on the drawing of Mohammed and the n-word are both just that: they are BOTH restrictions imposed on people.

What makes one restriction right and the other wrong?

simply drawing a picture.

Yes it is just simply drawing a picture, just like with the n-word it is just simply saying a word.

also, don't conflate racism with disrespect to religion. someone's genetic identity or recent geographic origin is nothing to hate or something that can be changed. there really is no rational reason to criticize a person with respect to those matters. drawing a picture of mohammed because you are being defiant against some people who want to kill you for simply drawing a picture is not the same as calling a black person the N-word because that person is homophobic. being black doesn't cause someone to be homophobic but your religion can cause you to kill someone over some trivial matter such as drawing a picture or burning a book.

If you go around a black neighbourhood, yelling the n-word repeatedly, you are very likely going to get killed also. How is getting killed over such a matter as a word any less trivial than getting killed over the drawing of a cartoon? Why is a simple cartoon less wrong than a simple word?

i hate my parents religion but i don't hate my parents.

You hate your parents' religions, but that is not an act. Destroying the Qu'ran is an act. The real question is, do you constantly shove your hate of parent's religion in their faces?

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

i really wish you guys would understand that denigrating an idea is not the same as denigrating one's skin color or genetic makeup. conflating race and religion has been a contributing factor of some of the biggest tragedies in human history. the worst thing to do is view muslims as an islamic race because if such an belief becomes widely accepted, nutjob pastors will be burning people instead of books.

 

[vicente]

It's implied. And when you have people that dedicate themselves to following it's teachings, it becomes a calling out against them. How do you think that a physicist would feel if someone came up to them and said that quantum mechanics is the stupidest idea ever, then burned a copy of A Brief History of Time? It's not even as directly related as burning the Qur'an, but I'm sure they'd still feel deeply offended.

I'm a physicist, I couldn't care less what people burn, whether it's Einstein's books or Newton's or whatever. Freedom of speech. The most I would do is laugh at their ignorance. That's how Muslims should react to Qur'an burning. Those that call for violence are proving the stereotype that Muslims are medieval.

 

[Dan416]

Agreed. If Muslims were progressive they'd have no problem with Koran burning.

 

[sonny]

Muslim immigration is a ticking timebomb for the west, i just wish a lot of people would read the Quaran and Hadith and find out for themselves what these people are all about.

So much for dubya bush abd other poloticians qoutes of " this kind and gentle religion'' this is not a religion, it is a military system, and it's sole purpose is to supplant there religion and way of life on the rest of the world and the Quaran advises them how to do this.

France and the usa with muslim populations of 8 million a piece are going to have large problems down the road, as i write this short tome, boatloads of illegal immigrants mainly muslims are arriving on Australias northern shore.

Sonny

 

[urbandreamer]

Ha, ppl forget history.... it's just as easy (although usually bloodier) to expell one group from a country as to let them in! I predict it happens again.

 

[doug]

Agreed. If Muslims were progressive they'd have no problem with Koran burning.

Look at how americans react if you burn their precious flag....no difference there.

 

[spider]

The difference is if a Bible is burned it is a book (note the lower case b) but if a Koran is burned it is not a book it is THE BOOK and is considered as holy as the messages it contains. The only parallel in our western Christian society is the Catholic belief that a wafer is more than just a wafer which all other Christians perceive it to be except that we agree to disagree and no one has to perish for their beliefs.

 

[GenerationW]

Look at how americans react if you burn their precious flag....no difference there.

Americans might (might!) attack you if they see you burning their flag in the U.S., but I have yet to see a bunch of Americans go on a violent rampage after people in another country have burned an American flag -- and there have only been about a billion opportunities for Americans to respond to seeing their flag burned by some disgruntled group overseas.