Quebec-Windsor Corridor

[ARG1]

Independently from whether we are talking about intercity (HxR) or commuter (GO) rail, I fail to identify a single location between Greenbelt and Peterborough which could possibly justify a stop.

I think a station at Locust Hill should be fine enough.

 

[micheal_can]

Independently from whether we are talking about intercity (HxR) or commuter (GO) rail, I fail to identify a single location between Greenbelt and Peterborough which could possibly justify a stop.

I would think a GO station at Highway 12 could be a draw for commuters. Might even be attractive enough that the Bala Sub doesn't get used for commuting any further than it is.

 

[roger1818]

Nothing new, but an interesting interview with Martin Imbleau about HxR.

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I thought the following comment interesting:

It’s important to note we’re not building one single project, but a network. So, you probably won’t take the full network on the first day. We’ll develop the whole network and then we’ll put in service a segment.

 

[crs1026]

I would think a GO station at Highway 12 could be a draw for commuters. Might even be attractive enough that the Bala Sub doesn't get used for commuting any further than it is.

That may be fine for the small amount of traffic that is already there, but the point is to not create incentives for growth in an area that is being conserved as greenbelt. The Havelock Sub is in exactly the wring place for a GO line. Having a Peterboro stop for a modest number of VIA trains makes more sense as the density already exists there and something that doesn’t stop everywhere along the way to Toronto is a more marketable proposition.
Also, putting a stopping service on the HxR line will demand a far greater amount of track. Don’t assume that if HxR is built, GO will fit as well, unless there were an incremental ML investment.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

That may be fine for the small amount of traffic that is already there, but the point is to not create incentives for growth in an area that is being conserved as greenbelt. The Havelock Sub is in exactly the wring place for a GO line. Having a Peterboro stop for a modest number of VIA trains makes more sense as the density already exists there and something that doesn’t stop everywhere along the way to Toronto is a more marketable proposition.
Also, putting a stopping service on the HxR line will demand a far greater amount of track. Don’t assume that if HxR is built, GO will fit as well, unless there were an incremental ML investment.

- Paul

If you do not want to create an incentive for growth, no new GO stations or lines should be explored. If however, you want to place GO lines and stations where they may work with the existing and potential future traffic patterns, then a station at Highway 12 could serve the area well.

 

[crs1026]

If you do not want to create an incentive for growth, no new GO stations or lines should be explored. If however, you want to place GO lines and stations where they may work with the existing and potential future traffic patterns, then a station at Highway 12 could serve the area well.

At Myrtle??? There’s nothing there.

If you are suggesting collection of car commuters from the hinterland, a short drive from Myrtle to the 407 and the new north south 400 highways gets you further faster.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

At Myrtle??? There’s nothing there.

If you are suggesting collection of car commuters from the hinterland, a short drive from Myrtle to the 407 and the new north south 400 highways gets you further faster.

- Paul

That is the location. I am thinking that people up Highway 12 would use it. Places like Port Perry and Uxbridge would be able to access it.

 

[Urban Sky]

Let‘s not forget about the railfans which would drive down from Sudbury to Myrtle just to jump on a train to Toronto…!

 

[Willybru21]

Independently from whether we are talking about intercity (HxR) or commuter (GO) rail, I fail to identify a single location between Greenbelt and Peterborough which could possibly justify a stop.

These were all the station locations studied in 2 Peterborough Line feasibility studies done by GO in 1997 and Metrolinx in 2007, its not included in this table but a spur to Summerhill was also proposed in a late 2000’s study, however I don’t know if it was the 2007 one specifically.

I don’t have much to add besides just showing this list:

 

[micheal_can]

These were all the station locations studied in 2 Peterborough Line feasibility studies done by GO in 1997 and Metrolinx in 2007, its not included in this table but a spur to Summerhill was also proposed in a late 2000’s study, however I don’t know if it was the 2007 one specifically.

I don’t have much to add besides just showing this list:View attachment 589957

From this, the stations at Locust Hill, Claremont, Myrtle and Pontypool were all recommended.

 

[crs1026]

That is the location. I am thinking that people up Highway 12 would use it. Places like Port Perry and Uxbridge would be able to access it.

Port Perry only has a population of about 10K.

I do expect that if HxR proceeds, there will be political pressure for a Durham Region stop so that people from the Lakeshore communities heading to Ottawa and Montreal don't have to backtrack all the way to Union Station. But that's a different proposition from thinking that Myrtle would be a potential hub generating ridership from the rural areas to the north.

The previous GO studies were from an era where more development was foreseen, or where people were looking for some way, any way, to get train service to return to Peterboro.

It makes eminent sense for a route running through Peterboro to have a stop there, but building stations and passing points all along that line to serve virtually nobody would be a really poor use of money - and it would create political pressure to change zoning to open up further development - and that's a really bad idea.

It's another case where the romance of a once-upon-a-time 2-car RDC doesn't justify building the infrastructure for a new GO route.


- Paul

 

[Willybru21]

From this, the stations at Locust Hill, Claremont, Myrtle and Pontypool were all recommended.

Keep in mind the line doesn’t exist because the project in its entirety was deemed infeasible.

 

[micheal_can]

Port Perry only has a population of about 10K.

I do expect that if HxR proceeds, there will be political pressure for a Durham Region stop so that people from the Lakeshore communities heading to Ottawa and Montreal don't have to backtrack all the way to Union Station. But that's a different proposition from thinking that Myrtle would be a potential hub generating ridership from the rural areas to the north.

The previous GO studies were from an era where more development was foreseen, or where people were looking for some way, any way, to get train service to return to Peterboro.

It makes eminent sense for a route running through Peterboro to have a stop there, but building stations and passing points all along that line to serve virtually nobody would be a really poor use of money - and it would create political pressure to change zoning to open up further development - and that's a really bad idea.

It's another case where the romance of a once-upon-a-time 2-car RDC doesn't justify building the infrastructure for a new GO route.


- Paul

As you said, political pressure.

Keep in mind the line doesn’t exist because the project in its entirety was deemed infeasible.

so, if we assume the line will have one of these for political reasons, which would provide the best option for the people of the area?

 

[crs1026]

As you said, political pressure.

so, if we assume the line will have one of these for political reasons, which would provide the best option for the people of the area?

Saying there will be pressure does not imply that the pressure will be successful. Especially with the bidders designing the service.

A Durham stop on a HxR line would likely recognize Highway 412 as the obvious feeder route, splitting the distance between Pickering-Ajax and Oshawa.

But Dagmar sure isn't a population center - it's literally in the middle of a forest.

- Paul

 

[lenaitch]

That is the location. I am thinking that people up Highway 12 would use it. Places like Port Perry and Uxbridge would be able to access it.

Granted Port Perry is closer to Myrtle Station, both of those communities are quite adequately proximate to Old Elm GO station. Future growth in Uxbridge is constrained by a lack of sewage capacity available on the York-Durham Sanitary Trunk System. I don't know for certain but would suspect Port Perry is similarly impacted.

If they are looking for a station stop to keep Durham Region happy (why?), Pontypool is a better bet, at least in term of access.

If you want to impair end-to-end travel times, by all means add more rural stops.