Quebec-Windsor Corridor

[lenaitch]

Highway 12 is a major highway in the area and the 412is right next to it. I have heard rumors that the 404and 412 are supposed to keep going north till they meet. If that ever happens, Myrtle is more attractive than Pontypool with that.

"The long-term plan for the highway includes an extension eastward along the south shore of Lake Simcoe all the way to Highway 12." The work is not done it seems.

As for the 412 extension:

https://pub-whitby.escribemeetings.com/filestream.ashx?DocumentId=16378

Am aware of of the long term plan for Hwy 404, but the link you provided was for the extension to Ravenshoe Rd., and that is complete.

Regard the extension of Hwy 412, a proposal for an extension a very short distance north of its current terminus with Hwy 407 to link up with Lakeridge Rd, or even to swing a couple of kilometers over to catch the current alignment of Hwy 7/12 is a long way physical way from Lake Simcoe and a long conceptual way from "keep going north until they meet".

Regardless, my point stands that I'm not sure inter-city rail should always mix with commuter rail, particularly since the east-west alignment of the current ROW is not very far from the Lakeshore East corridor. Do we expect Canadian to stop at all GO stations it passes? Pretty infrequent for sure, but to some, a train is a train is a train.

 

[micheal_can]

Am aware of of the long term plan for Hwy 404, but the link you provided was for the extension to Ravenshoe Rd., and that is complete.

Regard the extension of Hwy 412, a proposal for an extension a very short distance north of its current terminus with Hwy 407 to link up with Lakeridge Rd, or even to swing a couple of kilometers over to catch the current alignment of Hwy 7/12 is a long way physical way from Lake Simcoe and a long conceptual way from "keep going north until they meet".

Regardless, my point stands that I'm not sure inter-city rail should always mix with commuter rail, particularly since the east-west alignment of the current ROW is not very far from the Lakeshore East corridor. Do we expect Canadian to stop at all GO stations it passes? Pretty infrequent for sure, but to some, a train is a train is a train.

Should GO even go to Peterborough then?
Should there be a train from Ottawa early enough to allow people to commute from Peterborough with Via?

 

[lenaitch]

Should GO even go to Peterborough then?

Beats me. This sort of goes back to the discussion of whether VIA should be involved at all in inter-urban rail within a single province, vs expanding GO's mandate.

Should there be a train from Ottawa early enough to allow people to commute from Peterborough with Via?

Possibly, I don't know. I understand the concept was to run hourly service with, I assume, gaps in the middle of the night both to allow for maintenance and in recognition that the ridership would be thin. I don't recall the proposed run times but it seems an early morning train from Ottawa would provide decent service.

Peterborough ain't Barrie in terms of near-past explosive growth.

 

[Urban Sky]

I have no idea why this needs to be re-emphasized here, but there absolutely is no market for GO along the Havelock Subdivision to serve if HFR happens and yes, of course, there will need to be a train to arrive in Toronto well before 9 am, similar to what #641 is already offering today:

 

[crs1026]

Peterborough is the only community justifying rail service of any type. I would venture that 90%+ of that ridership most needs a fast direct ride to Union or Ottawa. A GO service that stops at smaller communities en route is likely not of interest to that market.

The proposals for a GO line were drafted at times where GO and Ontario were receptive to expanding service and Ottawa clearly wasn’t. The local politicians and public really never knew the diffeerence, they were just happy that the idea was on the table.

But looking at the details, the need is more for a VIA type service than a GO line.

- Paul

 

[micheal_can]

Beats me. This sort of goes back to the discussion of whether VIA should be involved at all in inter-urban rail within a single province, vs expanding GO's mandate.

Hopefully the GO RER and the Northlander return is something the province will use to do just that.

Possibly, I don't know. I understand the concept was to run hourly service with, I assume, gaps in the middle of the night both to allow for maintenance and in recognition that the ridership would be thin. I don't recall the proposed run times but it seems an early morning train from Ottawa would provide decent service.

Peterborough ain't Barrie in terms of near-past explosive growth.

Hopefully there are some.

 

[Mihairokov]

I have no idea why this needs to be re-emphasized here, but there absolutely is no market for GO along the Havelock Subdivision to serve if HFR happens and yes, of course, there will need to be a train to arrive in Toronto well before 9 am, similar to what #641 is already offering today:
View attachment 590369

Not sure if anyone has touched on this but I took 641 recently and it was the most full VIA train i've been on in a while. Pretty sleepy leaving Ottawa; Kingston accounted for a large portion of commuters.

 

[roger1818]

Not sure if anyone has touched on this but I took 641 recently and it was the most full VIA train i've been on in a while. Pretty sleepy leaving Ottawa; Kingston accounted for a large portion of commuters.

I would be very curios to hear a ball park on how many people boarded at Ottawa, Fallowfield, Smiths Falls and Brockville. Also, what day of the week was it?

 

[Mihairokov]

I would be very curios to hear a ball park on how many people boarded at Ottawa, Fallowfield, Smiths Falls and Brockville. Also, what day of the week was it?

Thursday.

Going to be honest with you: I was very sleepy and in-and-out of sleep most of the trip, so I can't provide any sort of good estimate. I don't even recall if we stopped in Smiths Falls. I know there were far fewer stops than a normal train on that route. If the train did stop at Smiths Falls/Brockville there weren't that many passengers - over 90% of the passengers were Ottawa/Kingston/Belleville.

One thing I will add is that the Ottawa Station doesn't open until 3:45, so if you were there before then like I was you're stuck standing around outside. The lounge had a posted opening time of 4:00 but the doors were open when the station opened at 3:45.

Also also: Had the ginger beef in business last night and it wasn't that good. Sounds a lot better on paper!

 

[lenaitch]

I would venture that 90%+ of that ridership most needs a fast direct ride to Union or Ottawa.

It would be interesting if some kind of survey bore that out. Completely anecdotal, but of the admittedly few people I have spoken to in the Peterborough area over the years, if they worked in the GTA, it was mostly south Durham. Granted, that was when GM and it's spin-offs were in full swing.

 

[crs1026]

It would be interesting if some kind of survey bore that out. Completely anecdotal, but of the admittedly few people I have spoken to in the Peterborough area over the years, if they worked in the GTA, it was mostly south Durham. Granted, that was when GM and it's spin-offs were in full swing.

Fair point, and I also know Peterboro residents who still work down there, but I suspect Highway 115/35 will always get those people to the major Durham Region employment centres better and faster than a GO train that requires transfer to a bus in Myrtle or Dagmar. So in my mind, those folks are not potential customers for a Peterboro train of any type.

- Paul

 

[rdaner]

Great! I wonder if the addition of MTSA zoning to each potential station changes the math?

 

[guavadelic]

The province should be advocating for a phase 2 of this kind going through Pearson, Kitchener, London, and Windsor.

Inter-City rail service west of Toronto will likely need to be provincially-led since VIA is trending towards slowly phasing out of service instead of expanding. Considering this government's hyper-focus on highways it's unlikely we'd see that anytime soon.

 

[Urban Sky]

Inter-City rail service west of Toronto will likely need to be provincially-led since VIA is trending towards slowly phasing out of service instead of expanding.

VIA‘s Corridor services are getting replaced and overall expanded by HFR, which is the exact opposite of „slowly phasing out of service“…

 

[dowlingm]

VIA‘s Corridor services are getting replaced and overall expanded by HFR, which is the exact opposite of „slowly phasing out of service“…

We’re not going to see HFR to Niagara Falls or Sarnia though (which is how I read the prior comment)? Not sure what Windsor will get but it will be at the tail end of whatever rollout is coming because they don’t have the juice Quebec City has