Brands
Active Member
It's not on paper napkins, it's actually getting built. I would go as far and say the Ford government has been the most GTA transit friendly government in Ontario's history.
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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario
- Thread starter animatronic
- Start date
afransen
Senior Member
Doug has been so much better than we had any right to expect him to be as a populist conservative premier. Corruption and buffoonery aside. He was really making a hash of things in his first year or two, but COVID seems to have mellowed him a bit and is in less of a 'score settling' mode.
T3G
Senior Member
I think you are giving them entirely too much credit.
The projects which will be their legacy - the SSE and Ontario line - are very much in the early stages, and declaring victory at this point feels like a far too premature celebration.
The projects which are nearing completion, i.e. Eglinton, Finch, Hurontario, were in the works long before he took over, and he deserves no credit or bashing for those projects' successes or failures.
As an aside, it is also worth noting that in its 18 years of existence, the only completed deliverable Metrolinx has to its name is the UP Express.
Brands
Active Member
lead82
Senior Member
Metrolonx has also delivered payments modernization after the initial mess of Presto cards. Open payment now works well and it’s much simpler to ride the GTA transit systems. Yes it took years and they should have done this from the beginning but we have it now.
On Doug, the blunders like the Greenbelt he is of course corrupt but we knew that. What I appreciate is that he can be easily pushed to back down and revert course with enough public pressure.
The Liberals and NDP style is much worse corruption which often does things with good intentions but has horrible consequences. Take transit or gas plants. Good intentions badly executed. Take tolls on Gardner and DVP. We should have had them to pay for things in this city. - Tory was on board - Wynne killed it and now it won’t be brought up for decades if ever.
Say what you will about Ford but he said he wants subways and he’s funding 4 core projects. They will be built yes with usual delays. At least he is focused. Even on Ontario Place which is controversial because of the spa, the place needed an attraction and an injection of investment. Liberal’s squandered a decade and built a sliver of a tiny park (which is nice, but hardly transformative). Meanwhile the city government does nothing for the Ex which is prime real estate and is mostly empty and derelict of uses except for a few event venues and 2 weeks of the Ex.
In general I’m not a Ford fan but I loathe governments that yap and virtue signal (see Trudeau) but accomplished nothing or worse.
Hate him or not but Ontarios other party leaders are much worse - sad to say. Federal government is even worse - JT vs PP.
On Doug, the blunders like the Greenbelt he is of course corrupt but we knew that. What I appreciate is that he can be easily pushed to back down and revert course with enough public pressure.
The Liberals and NDP style is much worse corruption which often does things with good intentions but has horrible consequences. Take transit or gas plants. Good intentions badly executed. Take tolls on Gardner and DVP. We should have had them to pay for things in this city. - Tory was on board - Wynne killed it and now it won’t be brought up for decades if ever.
Say what you will about Ford but he said he wants subways and he’s funding 4 core projects. They will be built yes with usual delays. At least he is focused. Even on Ontario Place which is controversial because of the spa, the place needed an attraction and an injection of investment. Liberal’s squandered a decade and built a sliver of a tiny park (which is nice, but hardly transformative). Meanwhile the city government does nothing for the Ex which is prime real estate and is mostly empty and derelict of uses except for a few event venues and 2 weeks of the Ex.
In general I’m not a Ford fan but I loathe governments that yap and virtue signal (see Trudeau) but accomplished nothing or worse.
Hate him or not but Ontarios other party leaders are much worse - sad to say. Federal government is even worse - JT vs PP.
zang
Senior Member
Has Burloak returned?
zang
Senior Member
So is Metrolinx an arms-length corporation or not?
Doug Ford says he has no control over Metrolinx, as it was created to be. In which case, he gets zero credit for anything they’ve done.
Or is Ford controlling the company? In that case the buck stops with him on Metrolinx’s failures and delays.
You don’t get to have your cake and eat it too.
lead82
Senior Member
It’s a crown corporation and he has full control of it. Of course the buck stops with him. I don’t believe him when he says such shit as he has no control. He had a minister there and works closely with Metrolinx and the secret society that they are. The issue is that the crosstown contract was poorly written and has zero accountability on the consortium building it. It would cost lots of $B to get them to do it faster. So Ford has control but it wasn’t him that put the contract in place it was Wynne as minister of transport at the time I believe.
I will judge Ford on how well the Ontario line gets built as that is fully his baby. That and SSE. Eglinton and Finch he just kept going but were not his projects.
I will judge Ford on how well the Ontario line gets built as that is fully his baby. That and SSE. Eglinton and Finch he just kept going but were not his projects.
Northern Light
Superstar
I think your sense of history is a bit limited temporally.
On the capital funding side, the scale of the SSE and Ontario Line are substantial, but one could look back at the 1960s and the entire Bloor Line (Line 2) was built from Islington to Warden from 1960-68, technically begun under Premier Frost, but overwhelmingly under Premier Robarts. During that same time period, the University Line (Line 1) and the Yonge Line (Line 1) from Eglinton to Finch were either begun or completed (the latter was finished in '74)
Count up your subway stations opened,that's pretty impressive.
Now, to be fair, consider relative scale. Toronto's subway system grew from 12 stations to more than 60 in 17 years. There was still lots of farmland in Toronto back then, and the City was a mere 1.8M people in 1961.
****
On the operating side, every Ontario government for decades, until Mike Harris paid 50% of the TTC's operating subsidy. Aside from one-off funds, and the new co-pay arrangement, that number remains zero today.
* There is a small subsidy from the provincial gas tax, started by the Liberals
lenaitch
Senior Member
It won't matter now. The province is in the process of uploading them.
DSC
Superstar
Member Bio
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Not quite sure where to put this but it is interesting that the London (Ontario) police are also participating in this. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...-uae-swat-games-chechnya-chechen-unit-ukraine
zang
Senior Member
That’s how Metrolinx was created to be. It was always intended to be arms length. If you’re saying he controls it, then he gets to own ALL its failures, delays and general f***ery for the past 6 years.
Sorry, but he’s had zero problem ripping up or ignoring contracts and legislation during his tenure (see; the vast amount the government has spent fighting contract lawsuits), so pretending he’s locked in just doesn’t cut it when it comes to Ford.
lead82
Senior Member
He has ripped contracts that he didn’t like. That is his perogative as Premier. I don’t like all that he does. He didn’t break contracts that had penalties- Beer store, Finch West and yes Eglinton. The terms were never shared but we can infer they could not be easily broken and hence why he didn’t. That’s why Finch West is still alive . He hates LRT and he would have cancelled if he could. He picks his battles.
I agree with you he owns the shit show that is Crosstown delivery. He should have done something to push it and get it completed sooner. Something in my mind tells me he maybe doing it on purpose to make a point to see how bad LRTs are.
adys123
Active Member
Green energy contracts would probably like a word with you
lead82
Senior Member
I was focused on transit. Yes he broke green contracts as he ran against it and had the mandate to do it. It was one of the first things he did and paid zero politically for it.