Premier Doug Ford's Ontario

[PinkLucy]

My hope is that this vocal minority will identify the establishments who defy the rules and they all go hang out together instead of harassing people who are just trying to do their jobs, and leave the rest of us in peace.

 

[lenaitch]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1437913965628100609

What a horrible provincial government.

Short of operational direct the police, which they cannot do, I'm not sure what else they can do regarding the protests. They could try for an injunction for the public property but they would run up against the Charter. If the protesters are on private property, injunctive relief would be up to the property owners.

In spite of the federal Liberals vowing to make such actions a criminal offence, most if not all of the actions; threatening, impeding, obstructing lawful use of property, etc. already are.

 

[tiffer24]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1438133797170647047

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Short of operational direct the police, which they cannot do, I'm not sure what else they can do regarding the protests. They could try for an injunction for the public property but they would run up against the Charter. If the protesters are on private property, injunctive relief would be up to the property owners.

In spite of the federal Liberals vowing to make such actions a criminal offence, most if not all of the actions; threatening, impeding, obstructing lawful use of property, etc. already are.

Easy at the provincial level - make it illegal to protest near healthcare facilities:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090

AoD

 

[Towered]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/covid-19-money-not-spent-fao-1.6176650

 

[lenaitch]

Easy at the provincial level - make it illegal to protest near healthcare facilities:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-abortion-protest-bill-1.4372090

AoD

Thanks for that. I wasn't aware of The Safe Access to Abortions Act. My non-learned reading of it concluded that it probably wouldn't withstand a Charter challenge, particularly as it relates to public property but, lo and behold, similar BC legislation has been upheld at the provincial Court of Appeal level as a reasonable limitation under the Charter (having said that, I don't know how similar the two acts are).

In the government's defence (gag), these hospital/healthcare protests have largely cropped up since the Legislature went into recess. When they eventually get back to, you know, governing, perhaps they could take a crack at new or amended legislation. On difference with the healthcare protests is they don't seem to care about actually contacting, dissuading or engaging patients and staff; they seem to be happy with screaming at them from a distance. One wonders how big a 'safe zone' would have to be without encompassing a good chunk of University Ave.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Thanks for that. I wasn't aware of The Safe Access to Abortions Act. My non-learned reading of it concluded that it probably wouldn't withstand a Charter challenge, particularly as it relates to public property but, lo and behold, similar BC legislation has been upheld at the provincial Court of Appeal level as a reasonable limitation under the Charter (having said that, I don't know how similar the two acts are).

In the government's defence (gag), these hospital/healthcare protests have largely cropped up since the Legislature went into recess. When they eventually get back to, you know, governing, perhaps they could take a crack at new or amended legislation. On difference with the healthcare protests is they don't seem to care about actually contacting, dissuading or engaging patients and staff; they seem to be happy with screaming at them from a distance. One wonders how big a 'safe zone' would have to be without encompassing a good chunk of University Ave.

Charter challenge? Preemptively s.33 it - it isn't like this particular provincial government ever hesitated to swing that bat. As to the distance - I am sure they can figure something out that would be sufficient. Having said all that, I doubt they have the stomach to go this route.

AoD

 

[W. K. Lis]

Randall Denley: Can eye care in Ontario get any worse? I can't see how ​

Ontario is doing a remarkably poor job of funding the limited eye care it does offer

From link.

Eye care in Ontario is a mess. The Doug Ford government didn’t create the problem, but it’s going to have to fix it.

The province’s optometrists are demanding higher pay and have withdrawn OHIP-covered services for seniors and children. In the Catch-22 world of Canadian medicare, patients can’t pay for the service directly because it’s covered by OHIP, even when it’s not being provided under OHIP.

In addition, eye surgery conducted by ophthalmologists is severely backed up due to the pandemic. The backlog, mostly for cataracts, makes up more than one-third of Ontario’s total surgical queue, according to the province’s financial accountability officer. This is a problem that will take years to fix.

The ophthalmologists also say they are underpaid, receiving just under $400 from the government for a cataract surgery that used to pay them $535. The Ontario rate is the lowest in Canada, the Eye Physicians and Surgeons of Ontario say.

Eye care is a microcosm of what’s wrong with Canada’s approach to medicare, and it starts with the Canada Health Act, medicare’s foundational document. The health act doesn’t mandate any eye care except for emergencies. Presumably, federal politicians don’t believe that the eye is an important part of the human body. As a result, some provinces don’t cover eye care. Most, like Ontario, provide coverage for seniors or children.

Ontario is doing a remarkably poor job of funding the limited eye care it does offer. The dispute with the optometrists is a case in point. Optometrists are not physicians, but they are trained eye specialists who conduct eye exams, prescribe glasses and monitor care. Ontario optometrists get about $45 for an eye exam, a figure than has changed little in 30 years. The Ontario Association of Optometrists says the check-up costs them about $80 to provide, so they lose money with every service. That’s a big deal when OHIP-covered eye exams make up about 70 per cent of your business.

To put Ontario’s fees in context, the next lowest fee is in Manitoba, which pays $77 for an exam. The Ontario optometrists say they’d be satisfied with that number.

So far, Ontario has offered to boost its fee to $49 and is providing a $39-million retroactive payment, about $16,000 each for the province’s 2,500 optometrists. The optometrists say that doesn’t cut it, and they’re right, as odious as their withdrawal of services for children and seniors is.

In comparison to other health system cost pressures, fixing the optometrist situation is not overly expensive. Optometrists provide about four million exams a year. Meeting their demand would cost something in the neighbourhood of $140 million.

The ophthalmologists are a whole different problem. To start with, there aren’t enough of them. The number of ophthalmologists has not kept pace with population growth over the last decade, much less with increasing demand from an aging population. The ophthalmologists say the volume of work they do has increased by 36 per cent since 2005 but the workforce has only gone up by five per cent. That Is somewhat offset by modern technology that allows them to do far more procedures in a day.

The higher volume and limited physician supply has boosted ophthalmologists’ earnings substantially. Between 2011 and 2018, nine of the province’s top 20 billing doctors were ophthalmologists.

The ophthalmologists certainly aren’t suffering as much as their patients. For older people awaiting cataract surgery, the ophthalmology situation is more than an annoyance. Cataracts can sharply reduce vision, affecting seniors’ quality of life, their ability to drive and their independence.

The provincial government is trying to reduce the cataract surgery backlog by taking the unusual step of appealing to private eye clinics to deliver the surgeries at OHIP rates, something they already do in theory. The private clinics provide services beyond the OHIP cataract basics, but the provincial government says no fees can be charged for “medically necessary” cataract surgery. Be that as it may, people willing to pay between $3,000 and $5,000 an eye for the extras can get their eyes fixed much more quickly than those in the OHIP queue.

The government says some have agreed to do so, but human nature suggests that getting 10 times the amount by charging directly will limit the eye docs’ enthusiasm.

It’s difficult to see how eye care in Ontario can get worse than it is now. Seniors can’t even get their eyeglass prescriptions updated and many are waiting for cataract surgery that’s far in the future. Their alternative is to spend an onerous amount of money to get this government-covered service sooner. Surely Ontario can do better.

 

[lenaitch]

^On the other side of the argument regarding ophthalmologists and cataract surgery, there is this:

More articles from news | CMAJ

cmajnews.com

Apparently, the actual length of time for the surgery (not counting pre-and-post op) is about 20 minutes.

 

[old boy]

^On the other side of the argument regarding ophthalmologists and cataract surgery, there is this:

More articles from news | CMAJ

cmajnews.com

Apparently, the actual length of time for the surgery (not counting pre-and-post op) is about 20 minutes.

That's about it, maybe even less time for the procedure itself. It's a pretty slick operation now, almost assembly-line efficient. I had cataract surgery this summer. Pre/post-op takes more time.

 

[DirectionNorth]

That's about it, maybe even less time for the procedure itself. It's a pretty slick operation now, almost assembly-line efficient. I had cataract surgery this summer. Pre/post-op takes more time.

^On the other side of the argument regarding ophthalmologists and cataract surgery, there is this:

More articles from news | CMAJ

cmajnews.com

Apparently, the actual length of time for the surgery (not counting pre-and-post op) is about 20 minutes.

I thought the issue was mainly a shortage of ophthalmologists?

 

[W. K. Lis]

Due to the inaction of the provincial government, eye care under OHIP has ended.​

From link.

Every day optometrists take pride in helping our patients see clearly and preventing blindness. But today we need your help.​

For over 30 years, the Ontario government has refused to formally negotiate with optometrists.​

In 1989, the Ontario government paid $39.15 for an eye exam.​

In 2021, 32 years later, they pay an average of $44.65.​

This amount does not come close to covering the cost (including rent, staff, utilities, equipment, taxes and supplies) to provide an eye exam.​

This is not sustainable and yet the Ontario government continues to ignore your care.​

Since the Ontario government has not prioritized eye care, access to millions of Ontarians ended on September 1, 2021.​

Tell Premier Ford and your local MPP that not properly funding eye care hurts you and your family.​

 

[Northern Light]

That's about it, maybe even less time for the procedure itself. It's a pretty slick operation now, almost assembly-line efficient. I had cataract surgery this summer. Pre/post-op takes more time.

My mother had this operation done, in/about 2016.

I had to accompany her as she wasn't well at that point...........

I can say, she spent longer in the waiting room than the o/r

She was probably 15 minutes.

The fees for these procedures need to drop further; the cost of advanced equipment is a legitimate contention by doctors, but the fees are covering that in spades right now.

Also, whether these doctors remain independent small businesses or became employees of the state, their practices, particularly in urban areas are sometimes very inefficiently organized.

With expensive rent and equipment the idea of a solo doc, or even a pair sharing a single practice and operating it ~40 hours per week is nuts, not to mention inconvenient to patients
who would love to be able to book weekends/evenings.

A joint practice of 5 or more ophthalmologists would allow far more billing for the same rent and equipment cost.

 

[Thinker]

Due to the inaction of the provincial government, eye care under OHIP has ended.​

From link.

Every day optometrists take pride in helping our patients see clearly and preventing blindness. But today we need your help.​

For over 30 years, the Ontario government has refused to formally negotiate with optometrists.​

In 1989, the Ontario government paid $39.15 for an eye exam.​

In 2021, 32 years later, they pay an average of $44.65.​

This amount does not come close to covering the cost (including rent, staff, utilities, equipment, taxes and supplies) to provide an eye exam.​

This is not sustainable and yet the Ontario government continues to ignore your care.​

Since the Ontario government has not prioritized eye care, access to millions of Ontarians ended on September 1, 2021.​

Tell Premier Ford and your local MPP that not properly funding eye care hurts you and your family.​

I am just being very cynical about this but, we can tell Ford and his cohorts anything until we are blue in our faces. Nothing will change until one of his election/party contributors are affected or place pressure on him.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I am just being very cynical about this but, we can tell Ford and his cohorts anything until we are blue in our faces. Nothing will change until one of his election/party contributors are affected or place pressure on him.

Judging by the reactions that Conservatives have with COVID-19 and vaccines, long-term care, and health care in general, the Conservatives can't see what their actions or inactions are doing to health in all medical fields.