SunriseChampion
Senior Member
Please explain. I'm too young to really know what either Harris or Rae were like as Premier,
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Premier Doug Ford's Ontario
- Thread starter animatronic
- Start date
Please explain. I'm too young to really know what either Harris or Rae were like as Premier,
zang
Senior Member
Harris just downloaded costs onto municipalities, robbing Peter to pay Paul. If my phone provider promised to cut my bill by 75%, and my cable bill "coincidentally" went up by 85% while I lost one-third of my channels, I'd consider that an abject failure to look out for "taxpayers".
BurlOak
Senior Member
Look at debt. Rae and McGuinty were terrible. Things improved greatly under Harris, despite fact that federal transfer payments were slashed (the only time in history they were reduced).
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JWBF
Senior Member
I wonder when Dougie will finally admit what Robbie did, that Dougie is a politician.
On a side note, Kelly Ann Conway stated that Trump is a businessman and not a politician.
JWBF
Senior Member
Interesting idea on eliminating the minimum wage increases and of course feed the corporate world.
JWBF
Senior Member
And social issues took a dive.Look at debt. Rae and McGuinty were terrible. Things improved greatly under Harris, despite fact that federal transfer payments were slashed (the only time in history they were reduced).
JWBF
Senior Member
Is Dougie looking for the thunderbolt to strike him down or just for birds that might shit on him?
zang
Senior Member
Both Rae and McGuinty were in power when worldwide recessions hit. Either Ontario is the most powerful economy in the western world, or debt growth followed economic downturn. Funny that.
BurlOak
Senior Member
And that's where the statistic comes in that Harper debt grew by 28%, while McGuinty/Wynne debt grew 100% over the same time. Factor out the recession, and its clear how bad Ontario was.
animatronic
Senior Member
The raw debt number is pretty meaningless. Debt:GDP ratio is what matters.
zang
Senior Member
How bad exactly? Let's take a look at Net Debt to GDP percentages for 2015-2016 for all provinces then, shall we?
http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial-forecasts/prov_fiscal.pdf (page 12)
The west does pretty well, Saskatchewan (9.9%), Alberta (-1.2%), BC (15.5%). However, a lot of that is tied to oil, and SK, AB debts are expected to rise.
Manitoba: 33.6%, Ontario 37.8%, Quebec: 47.2%, New Brunswick: 41.6%, Nova Scotia: 37.5%, Prince Edward Island: 35.3%, Newfoundland & Labrador: 42%.
Nationally, it's 31.8%
Notice a trend here? Ontario seems right in the middle of the pack for debt and the three western provinces have large long-term unsustainable revenue due to oil & natural gas production. Yeah, Ontario has a lot of debt, but it also has a markedly larger population (nearly 1.5x the next biggest, Quebec) it also makes a lot of money.
And take note, Ontario's 37.8% is far lower (ie; better) than the OECD 2015 average for developed countries (111%) and nowhere near the US's 104%, the UK at 103% and Japan at a whopping 232%. In short, this means Ontario (and Canada in general)'s ability to pay back its debt is quite good.
But sure, Ontario's debt is just so very, very, unbelievably bad that we shouldn't stand for it.
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pman
Senior Member
I’ve always wondered at the “net” in net debt. Presumably it means gross debt less an adjustment for assets, but what does that entail? For example, does it deduct assets held by provincially sponsored pension funds? That would be a stretch since there’s a liability on the other side. What about infrastructure? Would there be a deduction for the cost of SSE if and when it’s built? I would guess probably, even though the asset would have zero economic value. Or even negative given the discrepancy between future operating costs and revenues. What about the probably vast and unknowable liability for nuclear reactor decommissioning? That probably needs at least an estimate on the debt side.
animatronic
Senior Member
So... is it at all fishy that a twitter account set up to slag Patrick Brown sends out a single tweet suggesting there was a cooperation deal between Ford and Elliott, then DoFo uses that to get prime time tv exposure to deny it?
I’ll place money that Ford’s team dropped it so he can deny it.
I’ll place money that Ford’s team dropped it so he can deny it.
SunriseChampion
Senior Member
That graph you posted clearly shows that debt was decreasing under McGuinty until the recession. Just saying.
Is the debt measure the only metric you're basing your comparison on?
As an aside, my personal net debt is 55% of income compared with 38% of GDP for Ontario. My interest rates also average out to be 12.5% on this debt compared with Ontario's, what, ~4%?Meaning, I don't care what the provincial debt is because I have my own problems to manage and they are a lot worse and I ain't one of those idiots who is going to blame this or that government for financial hardships and the state of the economy when it's clearly my own fault.
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