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PM Justin Trudeau's Canada

Jasmine18 said:
However it shatter this logic that Kadar fans had that he will become this victim and hero to Canadians and people who were against him were a small hateful minority.
Most Canadians will never respect Kadar and never will and frankly Canadians have every right to say whatever they want about him.
Just because the Supreme Court says Kadar right were violated does not mean he is vindicated for his behaviour or the behaviour he is associated with in Afghanistan.
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No one has to be a "fan" of his behaviour during his time in Afghanistan, much less hero worship him. That's not the point - the point is judging the actions of a child (nevermind that he is in all likelihood brainwashed by his folks) as an adult, and allowing a child to be tortured through our inaction. That's a blemish on our part.

AoD
 
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I think Conservative support is getting more more angry and determined the longer that Trudeau governs, the issue is Trudeau can keep the 40% or so voters to keep voting for him. As long as that happens he will be PM for a while.

I dont think the majority of Canadians are very happy with Trudeau, just with Trump and the leaders that are in place currently, he is the best choice.

Which is a bit sad, as Trudeau is such a fruitcake.
 
ttk77 said:
No, what vindicates him is the fact that he was a child soldier. The responsible parties are those that brought him over there and made him fight in a war.
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The lesson is the only good terrorist is a dead one, 15 or 50 years old
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
That's a bold statement - unless you want to deal with the moral quandary of executing 15 year olds after they have been disarmed.

AoD
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I dont mean death penalty after the fact thats absurd lol..., I meant in the field of battle, this could all been avoided if Omar Kadar was killed in the first place, however ironically Americans gave him medical care to get information off him lol.

One aspects that makes me angry is that some think 'Omar had a right to be there and was simply defending himself'...no he was in a terrorist compound linked to the 9/11 attacks, and most of the world including Canada supported the United States to go into Afghanistan. Yes Omar was a child soldier and people say he did throw the grenade, there is no clear evidence of that though...however the idea he was in some sort of moral self dilemma as the Americans attack is a bit absurd as well...or that he was a scared child throwing a grenade in self defense against the evil bad imperialist Americans!

To me anything that really bad that ever happened to Omar Khadr was in Cuba... His conduct in Afghanistan is why this issue is hotly debated...

I think its best this episode is left behind us, as people will see him as a hero or victim or as a terrorist and people minds will never change...
 
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Jasmine18 said:
I dont mean death penalty after the fact thats absurd lol..., I meant in the field of battle, this could all been avoided if Omar Kadar was killed in the first place, however ironically Americans gave him medical care to get information off him lol.

One aspects that makes me angry is that some think 'Omar had a right to be there and was simply defending himself'...no he was in a terrorist compound linked to the 9/11 attacks, and most of the world including Canada supported the United States to go into Afghanistan. Yes Omar was a child soldier and people say he did throw the grenade, there is no clear evidence of that though...however the idea he was in some sort of moral self dilemma as the Americans attack is a bit absurd as well...or that he was a scared child throwing a grenade in self defense against the evil bad imperialist Americans!

To me anything that really bad that ever happened to Omar Khadr was in Cuba... His conduct in Afghanistan is why this issue is hotly debated...

I think its best this episode is left behind us, as people will see him as a hero or victim or as a terrorist and people minds will never change...
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Except reality doesn't work the way you wish to - so what are you going to do if he is grievously wounded? Not treat him so that he perish? If we are willing to swoop to that level I am not sure how much high ground we can claim under the superiority of our values - justice, ethics and system of government - you know, the very things that made us who we are?

I don't think I need to tie myself into a knot over his actions in Afghanistan - it is wrong to be involved in terrorism, but surely we have the luxury of at least trying to distinguish between someone who wholeheartedly chose to involve themselves in terrorism from someone who through the lottery of life was put in a place where one can plausibly argue that they won't know any better considering their age? The degree of eagerness for us to jettison values which we still hold dear just because of labelling is a little disturbing, to say the least. For our government to do so is even more so.

Let me be blunt - apparently some think that 16 below is too young to decide whether you can have sex, drive or smoke (nevermind getting married or vote), but it is apparently old enough for someone to decide whether they can be involved in terrorism just like one would as an adult (and to bring it further - that being tortured henceforth comes acceptable).

AoD
 
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This is going to be incredibly problematic.

What do we do with people who hate the idea of Canada? Should we leave them to face justice in the country they destroyed (Iraq)?

Is bringing them back to Canada their 'Get out of Jail easy' card, considering the vast differences between Iraqi and Canadian prisons- with even a chance of parole? Do they have any sort of regret about their actions- or are they willing to take advantage of our generosity to come home and continue spreading hatred here?

Ottawa may have no choice but to repatriate, prosecute captured Canadian ISIL members: experts
Turning a blind eye to maltreatment of Canadian ISIL members by Iraqis or others could lead to a human-rights claim like Khadr’s, a prof says
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Some experts say Ottawa has no choice but to try to repatriate and prosecute in Canada any detained members, ensuring they aren’t tortured or otherwise mistreated by local forces. As for those ISIL children, if they have one Canadian parent, they would be citizens and, lawyers say, deserve help.

“The government has absolutely no choice but to protect the Charter rights of these Canadians,” said Lorne Dawson, a University of Waterloo professor who has extensively studied radicalized youth.

“The embassy, the consulate would have to deal with them, the way they would any Canadian who’s gotten in trouble abroad, and assist them to come home if that’s what they want to do.”
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Others note there would be little public sympathy — especially after the controversial payment made to Omar Khadr — for bringing back foreign fighters, even if they were to face justice in Canada.

The French government, for one, has already said that Iraq’s court system, not France’s, should judge one of its nationals captured recently near Mosul, noted Phil Gurski, a former Canadian Security Intelligence Service analyst.

“Does the Canadian government have a legal, let alone a moral, responsibility to act on these people’s behalf? I think the answer is ‘No,’ ” said the head of the Borealis consulting company. “They made a conscious decision to leave this country and to join a group that everyone and his dog knows is a terrorist group … ‘It sucks to be you; live with it.’ ”

Andrew Gowing, a spokesman for Public Safety Canada, said the government would not speculate on what it would do with any captured Canadians, but said all citizens have a right to consular assistance.
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Turning a blind eye to maltreatment by Iraqis or others could lead to a human-rights claim like Khadr’s, Dawson said. Though accused of killing an American soldier while a teenage member of al-Qaida, Khadr received a $10.5-million settlement recently over Canada’s role in his torture and other rights violations while in U.S. military custody.
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Estimates from the government and outside researchers suggest as many as 100 Canadians have travelled to Iraq or Syria to join ISIL, including 15 to 20 women, most of whom have reportedly had children there.

Citizens facing serious charges in a foreign country with a well-functioning justice system would normally be left to that nation’s courts, says Anil Kapoor, a Toronto lawyer who has acted on numerous national-security cases. But given that ISIL members would be detained in a chaotic war zone, Canada should probably try to repatriate them, he said.

Once here, they could face charges under section 83 of the Criminal Code, such as leaving Canada to join a terrorist organization, participating in or facilitating terrorist activity, or committing a crime for a terror group, with penalties of up to life in prison.
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If local authorities in Iraq or elsewhere insisted on prosecuting them, Canada should at least provide diplomatic assistance, said Kapoor.

Even if some are convicted of crimes in Canada, efforts ought to be made to reintegrate them into society after their sentences end, argued Barbara Jackman, a Toronto immigration lawyer who has often handled terror-related cases.

“I really think they need to work with the Muslim community in terms of developing plans to assist them,” she said. “They are Canadian kids, we can’t just sort of throw them away.”

Babies born in the Middle East to at least one parent who is a Canadian citizen would automatically be Canadian themselves, Gowing said.

Such children may, though, face an uncertain future, said Gurski.

“This issue of orphans and kids born to people who joined Islamic State is going to haunt us for a decade,” he said. “Who wants to take care of them? It’s not the kids’ fault, but these are the sons and daughters of terrorists.”
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http://nationalpost.com/news/politi...erts/wcm/aa33db7f-0d23-4e0c-b685-f7397ea9606b
 
jje1000 said:
This is going to be incredibly problematic.

What do we do with people who hate the idea of Canada? Should we leave them to face justice in the country they destroyed (Iraq)?

Is bringing them back to Canada their 'Get out of Jail easy' card, considering the vast differences between Iraqi and Canadian prisons- with even a chance of parole? Do they have any sort of regret about their actions- or are they willing to take advantage of our generosity to come home and continue spreading hatred here?

http://nationalpost.com/news/politi...erts/wcm/aa33db7f-0d23-4e0c-b685-f7397ea9606b
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If they are citizens, we do what we do to people hate Canada who are native born - we try them and we jail them in accordance with their crime. That's our responsibility.

AoD
 
I believe the way France has approached this is right- they should be tried according to Iraqi laws as fairly as possible (possibly sending in an observer to monitor the process and keep tabs on any abuse) - after all, the towns they've destroyed and the many Sunnis, Shi'a, Christians, and Yezidis they've slaughtered still lie in Iraqi grounds.

After that, we can then decide whether or not to bring them home to serve their sentences.

I think we'd be doing a disservice to the victims otherwise.
 
AlvinofDiaspar said:
If they are citizens, we do what we do to people hate Canada who are native born - we try them and we jail them in accordance with their crime. That's our responsibility.

AoD
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Imo such people would not be jailed such people and treat them of victims of American Imperialism...

I have complete lack of faith in courts to punish terrorists, it seems we only care about their sob stories.
 
Jasmine18 said:
Imo such people would not be jailed such people and treat them of victims of American Imperialism...

I have complete lack of faith in courts to punish terrorists, it seems we only care about their sob stories.
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Your faith or lack thereof is unnecessary - you should ask how the Toronto 18 did instead.

AoD
 
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AlvinofDiaspar said:
Your faith or lack thereof is unnecessary - you should ask how the Toronto 18 did instead.

AoD
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Only one person was convicted of the Air India bombing, despite the authorities tracking the perpetrators prior to event and despite investigators spending millions to raise a plane and reassemble it in a warehouse. That one person is now free to live at home. Omar Khadr's father was partially funded overseas by Canada, and then PM Chretien and advocacy groups here campaigned for his release when he was arrested by Pakistan. This for a person who only spent a handful of years in this country, mostly as a mature student, and who rejected this country because he didn't want his children becoming godless homosexuals. Farhat Hashmi, whose reactionary schools in Pakistan were connected to the female attacker in the San Bernadino shooting, was able to reside for several years in Mississauga and establish a school there, despite being refused immigration status. I also question if our system is up to the challenge of people committed to the chaos of much of the rest of the world. Maybe we were lucky with the Toronto 18.
 
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