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PM Justin Trudeau's Canada

picard102 said:
Of course they aren't scared of being sent back home so work themselves to the bone out of the goodness of their hearts for their benevolent employers.
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Perhaps we have different definitions of fear. I think your definition might be so broad as to encompass all loss aversion.
 
Canadians have this strange and outdated perception that people will keep coming from the developing world indefinitely. The thing is, if you're highly talented in the developing world, you have a lot of options. Your own country is rapidly developing. And as developed countries all see their birth rates fall even further, the demand for skilled immigrants grows further.

What I see from family and friends is that Canada has slipped. Used to be maybe third behind the US and the UK. Now Europe is preferable to those who can break into that job market. Even the US is losing its luster. Though at least the US has a large legacy tailwind to keep it going for a while.
 
kEiThZ said:
Canadians have this strange and outdated perception that people will keep coming from the developing world indefinitely. The thing is, if you're highly talented in the developing world, you have a lot of options. Your own country is rapidly developing. And as developed countries all see their birth rates fall even further, the demand for skilled immigrants grows further.

What I see from family and friends is that Canada has slipped. Used to be maybe third behind the US and the UK. Now Europe is preferable to those who can break into that job market. Even the US is losing its luster. Though at least the US has a large legacy tailwind to keep it going for a while.
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If I was an Indian citizen with any employable skills I’d stay in India rather than come to Canada. I can‘t imagine anyone who departs from the excitement of a thousand-year cultural centre with a growing economy like India and arrives at some generic subdivision in Brampton, destined for factory or service sector work, where you and your children will forever be seen by many as foreigners, feels they made the right decision. When we emigrated from the UK to Canada in the 1970s there was no similar challenges, we traded one primarily white, English-speaking, QE2-led constitutional monarchy for another, with near identical values on many things family and cultural matters, and with default immediate acceptance/equivalency of our UK credentials and work experience. UK English and white Anglo-Canadians also shared common values on the narrow definition of family, where you might see your cousins or even grandparents a few times a year, where multigenerational homes would be anathema, rather than your extended family being close, making SFH more sensible for us newly arrived Brits. Plus we landed in a country where, even with double digit interest rates my middle class parents could buy a house costing less than five years salary.

Today‘s arrivals from Asia (including the subcontinent and middle east), where the vast majority of our immigrants come from, must have a shockingly different experience when they arrive compared to my family’s experience. A good few must say, sod this, and return home or emigrate elsewhere.
 
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Admiral Beez said:
If I was an Indian citizen with any employable skills I’d stay in India rather than come to Canada. I can‘t imagine anyone who departs from the excitement of a thousand-year cultural centre with a growing economy like India and arrives at some generic subdivision in Brampton, destined for factory or service sector work, where you and your children will forever be seen by many as foreigners, feels they made the right decision. When we emigrated from the UK to Canada in the 1970s there was no similar challenges, we traded one primarily white, English-speaking, QE2-led constitutional monarchy for another, with near identical values on many things family and cultural matters, and with default immediate acceptance/equivalency of our UK credentials and work experience. UK English and white Anglo-Canadians also shared common values on the narrow definition of family, where you might see your cousins or even grandparents a few times a year, where multigenerational homes would be anathema, rather than your extended family being close, making SFH more sensible for us newly arrived Brits. Plus we landed in a country where, even with double digit interest rates my middle class parents could buy a house costing less than five years salary.

Today‘s arrivals from Asia (including the subcontinent and middle east), where the vast majority of our immigrants come from, must have a shockingly different experience when they arrive compared to my family’s experience. A good few must say, sod this, and return home or emigrate elsewhere.
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My family arrived from China around 2000 (I did not exist then), and even then it was different. I am told that it was worth leaving the polluted, congested cities; but China is much cleaner (when they visited family in 2015 they said that the air and streets were cleaner than in 2004 when they last visited) and less congested (subways everywhere) today. Perhaps most crucially, my family owned their property before the real estate bubble.

The advice I hear given to young relatives over the phone nowadays is, "stay in China". Friends my age who migrated here as a child, say they do not want to stay.
 
DirectionNorth said:
My family arrived from China around 2000 (I did not exist then), and even then it was different. I am told that it was worth leaving the polluted, congested cities; but China is much cleaner (when they visited family in 2015 they said that the air and streets were cleaner than in 2004 when they last visited) and less congested (subways everywhere) today. Perhaps most crucially, my family owned their property before the real estate bubble.

The advice I hear given to young relatives over the phone nowadays is, "stay in China". Friends my age who migrated here as a child, say they do not want to stay.
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I’ve been to three primarily Chinese-populated countries; China (naturally) including Hkg, SHA, Beijing and Shenzhen, Taiwan and Singapore. All three had wonderfully exciting cultural scenes and long Chinese histories. I truly enjoyed myself. I can’t imagine being of Chinese descent living in a Markham subdivision holds a candle to this.

I feel the same when I go to the UK. There’s a cultural, blood-like bond with the place. I found myself in March 2022 walking solo around London for hours, thinking, these are my people.
 
If the Admiral's immigrants read The Economist (i August 2022) they may still want to come here.

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DSC said:
There is a remarkably similar article in today's Guardian about very much the same thing in UK and I have heard similar stories from Australia. It is not a good situation but certainly not unique to Canada.
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You're right, though can I be allowed to substitute 'not a good situation' with 'self-inflicted and harmful idiocy?
 
By mid-September 2022, close to 5 million individual refugees from Ukraine had been recorded across the EU and other OECD countries.
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Putin’s Draft Order Has Inspired a Russian Exodus​

“I’ve never seen anything like this,” an advocate said. “It feels like a sort of popular resistance.”

From link.

I expected to see an emigration of people from Ukraine AND Russia. Some will end up in Canada. These people are usually more higher educated.
 
W. K. Lis said:

Putin’s Draft Order Has Inspired a Russian Exodus​

“I’ve never seen anything like this,” an advocate said. “It feels like a sort of popular resistance.”

From link.

I expected to see an emigration of people from Ukraine AND Russia. Some will end up in Canada. These people are usually more higher educated.
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Not so much for Canada, but for nations bordering Russia I would be very wary of building up any Russian emigre population. Putin’s justification for military intervention in Moldova and Georgia, and invasions of Chechnya and Ukraine is that ethnic Russians need protecting. I think Georgia was nuts to allow in Russians by the tens of thousands during Putin‘s autumn 2022 mobilization.

When this war is over I’d not be surprised if Ukraine marched all ethnic Russians to the border and pushed them over, much like how Russia expelled all ethnic Germans from former East Prussia upon founding Kaliningrad. But to his credit Zelenskyy is embracing Ukrainians of all origins.

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/ukrai...reats-ethnic-russians-as-second-rate-citizens
 
Admiral Beez said:
Not so much for Canada, but for nations bordering Russia I would be very wary of building up any Russian emigre population. Putin’s justification for military intervention in Moldova and Georgia, and invasions of Chechnya and Ukraine is that ethnic Russians need protecting. I think Georgia was nuts to allow in Russians by the tens of thousands during Putin‘s autumn 2022 mobilization.

When this war is over I’d not be surprised if Ukraine marched all ethnic Russians to the border and pushed them over, much like how Russia expelled all ethnic Germans from former East Prussia upon founding Kaliningrad. But to his credit Zelenskyy is embracing Ukrainians of all origins.

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/ukrai...reats-ethnic-russians-as-second-rate-citizens
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Same with the former Soviet Baltic republics. Ethnic Russians are embedded in several former Warsaw pact countries/Russian regions; some in sufficient numbers to worry local governments.
 
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Admiral Beez said:
If I was an Indian citizen with any employable skills I’d stay in India rather than come to Canada. I can‘t imagine anyone who departs from the excitement of a thousand-year cultural centre with a growing economy like India and arrives at some generic subdivision in Brampton, destined for factory or service sector work, where you and your children will forever be seen by many as foreigners, feels they made the right decision. When we emigrated from the UK to Canada in the 1970s there was no similar challenges, we traded one primarily white, English-speaking, QE2-led constitutional monarchy for another, with near identical values on many things family and cultural matters, and with default immediate acceptance/equivalency of our UK credentials and work experience. UK English and white Anglo-Canadians also shared common values on the narrow definition of family, where you might see your cousins or even grandparents a few times a year, where multigenerational homes would be anathema, rather than your extended family being close, making SFH more sensible for us newly arrived Brits. Plus we landed in a country where, even with double digit interest rates my middle class parents could buy a house costing less than five years salary.

Today‘s arrivals from Asia (including the subcontinent and middle east), where the vast majority of our immigrants come from, must have a shockingly different experience when they arrive compared to my family’s experience. A good few must say, sod this, and return home or emigrate elsewhere.
Click to expand...
At the bank where I work, which is a US bank with only a small Canadian presence, we have about ten people on staff who were hired from the bank's Indian offices. They had already been doing work for Canada that was outsourced there, so they were a natural to get more senior positions here when they opened up. The bank did not help them move here, they had to do all the work themselves, but I have to believe the Canadian banks are doing this same thing too now.

I call it reverse outsourcing.
 
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Jonny5 said:
At the bank where I work, which is a US bank with only a small Canadian presence, we have about ten people on staff who were hired from the bank's Indian offices. They had already been doing work for Canada that was outsourced there, so they were a natural to get more senior positions here when they opened up. The bank did not help them move here, they had to do all the work themselves, but I have to believe the Canadian banks are doing this same thing too now.

I call it reverse outsourcing.
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Good info; {thanks); suspect program; but in so far as they are both as well qualified, and as well paid as their Canadian (by birth or immigration) counterparts would have been; I take no issue w/it.

Insofar as it has been used to undermine wage growth for you or you compatriots, I take profound issue w/it.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on that.
 
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