Planned Sprawl in the GTA

[waterloowarrior]

When I started in planning, people would show up at public meetings talking about Agenda 21 and how the UN was planning to force every in cities as part of the one world government....15 years later, 15 minute cities and Agenda 2030 are the new conspiracy theory. Haven't people realized the UN is completely toothless by now?

 

[W. K. Lis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1649088798968496134

 

[W. K. Lis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1650436974510063616

 

[W. K. Lis]

 

[xy3]

Interference in the free market , whether through artificially low interest rates, SFH zoning, or greenbelts always leads to less supply , more demand and inflated land prices.

 

[wopchop]

Interference in the free market , whether through artificially low interest rates, SFH zoning, or greenbelts always leads to less supply , more demand and inflated land prices.

Sometimes the free market should be restrained, because it is a bastard.

 

[afransen]

Sometimes the free market should be restrained, because it is a bastard.

This is a bit like complaining about gravity.

 

[wopchop]

This is a bit like complaining about gravity.

Is it? Because we still build guardrails to protect people from gravity.

I know it is currently in vogue that if we simply give developers an open playbook, we will magically have more houses that will be affordable - but there is no guarantee of that.

Developers are sharks that want to build you the cheapest possible house at the maximum price the market will bear. No one I know is going to magically reduce prices because suddenly SFH zoning is gone or we pave the Greenbelt.

The market is constrained by labour, and everyone knows that, even developers. But they obviously are going to complain about regulation, because that is a cost they would love to lower - especially because they don't need to promise to reduce their selling price, which is not based on cost.

 

[Northern Light]

This is a bit like complaining about gravity.

I'm with @wopchop above.......

The minimum wage is a restraint on the free market; so are paid vacation mandates, statutory holidays, parental leave and a 40 hour work week (44 hours in Ontario).

We do have these restraints, and they are effective to a point in providing a better minimal outcome for all workers. I would argue they are inadequate, and that we ought to have higher minimum wage, higher paid vacation mandates and a personal day (sick day) mandate as well.

Worker safety laws as a restraint on the market as well; so are interest rate caps and building codes and fire codes, and accessibility mandates.

The idea that there is or should be an unfettered free market borders on the incredulous to me.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Is it? Because we still build guardrails to protect people from gravity.

I know it is currently in vogue that if we simply give developers an open playbook, we will magically have more houses that will be affordable - but there is no guarantee of that.

Developers are sharks that want to build you the cheapest possible house at the maximum price the market will bear. No one I know is going to magically reduce prices because suddenly SFH zoning is gone or we pave the Greenbelt.

The market is constrained by labour, and everyone knows that, even developers. But they obviously are going to complain about regulation, because that is a cost they would love to lower - especially because they don't need to promise to reduce their selling price, which is not based on cost.

We build guardrail to protect motorists, not pedestrians.

Is this guardrail to protect pedestrians from falling down the hillside or the motor vehicles from falling down the hillside?
From link.

Zero protection for pedestrians from the motor vehicles.

 

[afransen]

I'm with @wopchop above.......

The minimum wage is a restraint on the free market; so are paid vacation mandates, statutory holidays, parental leave and a 40 hour work week (44 hours in Ontario).

We do have these restraints, and they are effective to a point in providing a better minimal outcome for all workers. I would argue they are inadequate, and that we ought to have higher minimum wage, higher paid vacation mandates and a personal day (sick day) mandate as well.

Worker safety laws as a restraint on the market as well; so are interest rate caps and building codes and fire codes, and accessibility mandates.

The idea that there is or should be an unfettered free market borders on the incredulous to me.

Sure. We take measures to protect from the excesses of gravity, but I'm not sure I've heard it described as a bastard.

 

[W. K. Lis]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1655582325525159937

 

[christiesplits]

Looks like Empire is up to some games on the north shore of Lake Erie.. this time taking advantage of the un-used wastewater treatment facility for the failed Townsend development to build a new town of about 30,000 residents beside Stelco Nanticoke..

https://www.thespec.com/local-haldi...a&utm_campaign=&utm_campaign_id=&utm_content=

Interesting development in Nanticoke regarding the proposed housing development.

Haldimand’s biggest employer has hinted it might leave if development proceeds

Stelco has suggested they won’t be long for Nanticoke if 40,000 residents move in next door — that has politicians split on what to do with a lucrative offer from a developer to build a new community

www.thespec.com

Rezoning the lands around the company’s Lake Erie steelworks to residential, Harris said, “will have a negative impact to Stelco and its future operations.”
“Based on the information we have before us here today, we can provide you no assurance that we will be here in 20 years,” he told council.

“How would they be able to please everybody? I just don’t think they could,” she said.
Stelco already pays to clean the properties of Nanticoke residents whose homes are blackened by particulate from the steelmaker’s blast furnace, Bentley noted.
“You have lots of noise, lots of dust, odours,” she said. “(Stelco) has gotten a lot better with their pollution control, but you still get that dust.”
Losing 1,500 full-time jobs — plus thousands more contractors out of work — would significantly cut into county’s bottom line, the mayor added.

 

[lenaitch]

Interesting development in Nanticoke regarding the proposed housing development.

Haldimand’s biggest employer has hinted it might leave if development proceeds

Stelco has suggested they won’t be long for Nanticoke if 40,000 residents move in next door — that has politicians split on what to do with a lucrative offer from a developer to build a new community

www.thespec.com

Ya, the whole 'live-work-play' mixed use mindset doesn't really work well with heavy industry. We've even had problems with residential in farmland. They could try tying covenants to the titles of the new homes but I doubt it would stop the conflict. At some point Stelco would call their bluff and move on, probably out-of-country.

Of course, the government's answer is 'houses-houses-houses'. I'm surprised they haven't approved a site plan for a former landfill site.

 

[just east of the creek]

Ya, the whole 'live-work-play' mixed use mindset doesn't really work well with heavy industry. We've even had problems with residential in farmland. They could try tying covenants to the titles of the new homes but I doubt it would stop the conflict. At some point Stelco would call their bluff and move on, probably out-of-country.

Of course, the government's answer is 'houses-houses-houses'. I'm surprised they haven't approved a site plan for a former landfill site.

I was in the area last week and there are a lot of signs up protesting a new town of 40,000. And my clients are dead set against this Developement proposal as well. The area was developed for heavy industry, they are still working to attract more. As my client noted, it’s as if they want to put housing one pier over from Stelco in Hamilton. (Redpath seems to work in Toronto as the process is relatively benign and people seem to like the big ships - it’s as if Redpath has been adopted by the neighbourhood. Not sure that works for the blast furnaces of Stelco)