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Park Lawn Lake Shore Transportation Master Plan

drum118 said:
South of the Queensway and going north of the CP overpass will not support an ROW. There are no links to these plans/ideas
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well...south of horner/north of lake shore is really bad too. can't push the busiest street intersection to 1 lane and if they have to expand, homes will likely need to be torn down, hydro poles relocated... and the rail lines have a bridge with a median and a shallow pit (not enough clearance) with buildings on its immediate edges (one of them being the leafs practice facility lol) so it's no bueno.

even if they did mixed traffic, the incline on the south side would either be too extreme so streetcars couldn't go up the hill or the leafs would lose access to their facility (there is zero option of moving the entrance to TDSB side).... and the intersection would have to be removed.

too much cost when buses currently do a lot of the heavy work at the moment and there's really nothing between queensway and lake shore and very little between queensway and bloor. it's just the large amount of students going to humber that's the issue right now and the fleet of regular and express buses are satisfactory for the area for the time being.
 
DopeyFish said:
well...south of horner/north of lake shore is really bad too. can't push the busiest street intersection to 1 lane and if they have to expand, homes will likely need to be torn down, hydro poles relocated... and the rail lines have a bridge with a median and a shallow pit (not enough clearance) with buildings on its immediate edges (one of them being the leafs practice facility lol) so it's no bueno.

even if they did mixed traffic, the incline on the south side would either be too extreme so streetcars couldn't go up the hill or the leafs would lose access to their facility (there is zero option of moving the entrance to TDSB side).... and the intersection would have to be removed.

too much cost when buses currently do a lot of the heavy work at the moment and there's really nothing between queensway and lakeshore and very little between queensway and bloor. it's just the large amount of students going to humber that's the issue right now and the fleet of regular and express buses are satisfactory for the area for the time being.
Click to expand...
Like you, I see far too many issues for a streetcar line on Kipling when Islington would be a better route
 
drum118 said:
Like you, I see far too many issues for a streetcar line on Kipling when Islington would be a better route
Click to expand...

agreed

though there is an issue there, too. south of birmingham is even worse than kipling, outside of that it's a pretty open and straight shot over a couple bridges. mind you, if the 501 turns into the 509 for this area, ridership for the 110 is going to plummet like a rock. majority of people only use the islington bus to get to the subway to get downtown. once the waterfront LRT is in place, no need to do that any more.
 
DopeyFish said:
agreed

though there is an issue there, too. south of birmingham is even worse than kipling, outside of that it's a pretty open and straight shot over a couple bridges. mind you, if the 501 turns into the 509 for this area, ridership for the 110 is going to plummet like a rock. majority of people only use the islington bus to get to the subway to get downtown. once the waterfront LRT is in place, no need to do that any more.
Click to expand...
That south section is tight, but only for mix traffic. The 2 bridges may have to be rebuilt to handle the streetcars. Have use the 110 a lot and find the turn over is long the route than going to either end, but have never done a full review of the line to see what you see.

Going be decades before the Waterfront LRT is built. If and when the new Park Lawn Loop and GO Station is built, there will be a change in travel pattern and that is a least a decade away or more.
 
drum118 said:
Like you, I see far too many issues for a streetcar line on Kipling when Islington would be a better route
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Islington have significantly fewer trip generators than Kipling does along its length?
 
New Report on this one is headed to the July 5th meeting of Infrastructure and Environment Ctte.

Report here:


Preliminary Preferred Alternative below:

1624637447295.png
 
interesting, seems the city doesn't want the relief road to connect directly to the gardiner, but it does make sense to just add another connection from queensway because that's largely what the relief road would be offloading... but it also means the entirety of 2150 would have a longer route out than originally proposed

considering the on ramp has lights, wouldn't it make sense to connect the relief road anyways? it's not like they'd be waiting for traffic from the on ramp
 
nfitz said:
The biggest surprise here for me, and it's really underplayed in the report, is TTC abandoning Humber Loop. Though by doing so, and moving the tunnel further east, they do finally better serve the the Humber Shores area.
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If you follow the Mr Christie site redevelopment, Humber loop move to the loop for the development on day one. The existing tunnel will remain unless the single eastbound Lake Shore lane becomes 2 way.

The current thinking city level is changing the eastbound off ramp to allow 2 way travel on the Lake Shore from what there. It would allow the new Lake Shore LRT to remain 100% on the lake Shore than going up to the Queensway that was approved in 2010. This surface in the Waterfront Reset study and will require an new EA.

I pushed this new route during the EA for Lake Shore back in 2008 and since then.
 
drum118 said:
If you follow the Mr Christie site redevelopment, Humber loop move to the loop for the development on day one. The existing tunnel will remain unless the single eastbound Lake Shore lane becomes 2 way.
Click to expand...
I don't live in Etobicoke, so I don't follow too closely. I was aware of the plans for the new loop at Park Lawn, and extending 501 Humber services to there. But I'd completely missed the plans for a new tunnel that bypasses the existing Humber loop!

Good to see the dedicated ROW extended to Legion as well. Bit-by-bit, they Waterfront West LRT appears.
 
nfitz said:
I don't live in Etobicoke, so I don't follow too closely. I was aware of the plans for the new loop at Park Lawn, and extending 501 Humber services to there. But I'd completely missed the plans for a new tunnel that bypasses the existing Humber loop!

Good to see the dedicated ROW extended to Legion as well. Bit-by-bit, they Waterfront West LRT appears.
Click to expand...
If I understand correctly, there is no new streetcar tunnel.... rather, once the streetcar passes through the (deactivated) Humber Loop and the existing tunnel under the Gardiner, it runs on the surface in a dedicated ROW west to a new loop near the GO station. ?

I'm a local resident, and while the option chosen is probably the best one, I just can't imagine the road network being able to bear all the traffic once the Christie precinct is developed. The extension through the Sobeys plaza is a clever way to distribute traffic coming off the Gardiner, but the intersection at the Queensway is already backed up simply on the basis of traffic to the mall. Once connected to the Gardiner, the left-turn cycle north to west will have to be extended, reducing throughput on the Queensway.

I wonder how long the Food Terminal will hang in at this location. Truck traffic on Park Lawn and the Queensway is already hell.

- Paul
 
crs1026 said:
If I understand correctly, there is no new streetcar tunnel.... rather, once the streetcar passes through the (deactivated) Humber Loop and the existing tunnel under the Gardiner, it runs on the surface in a dedicated ROW west to a new loop near the GO station. ?

I'm a local resident, and while the option chosen is probably the best one, I just can't imagine the road network being able to bear all the traffic once the Christie precinct is developed. The extension through the Sobeys plaza is a clever way to distribute traffic coming off the Gardiner, but the intersection at the Queensway is already backed up simply on the basis of traffic to the mall. Once connected to the Gardiner, the left-turn cycle north to west will have to be extended, reducing throughput on the Queensway.

I wonder how long the Food Terminal will hang in at this location. Truck traffic on Park Lawn and the Queensway is already hell.

- Paul
Click to expand...

The OFT ( I think) is likely to stay put.

The truck issue could be addressed by dedicated connections for trucks from the Gardiner to the OFT.

***

If the OFT moved............think how much more new development would take its place! It wouldn't address the traffic much. The OFT site is larger than the Mr. Christie's site.
 
crs1026 said:
If I understand correctly, there is no new streetcar tunnel.... rather, once the streetcar passes through the (deactivated) Humber Loop and the existing tunnel under the Gardiner, it runs on the surface in a dedicated ROW west to a new loop near the GO station. ?
Click to expand...
That's what I'd always assumed - but the figure above clearly shows the streetcar crossing the tracks/Gardiner, and joining Lake Shore at the intersection of Palace Pier Ct and Lake Shore - about 300 metres further east than it does now at 2111 Lake Shore West.

Perhaps they can reuse the old CNR bridge over the previous Queensway alignment, that was abandoned when they moved the Queensway in the late 1950s.

I don't see any point in maintaining the existing tunnel, unless it's just for pedestrians.
 
nfitz said:
Perhaps they can reuse the old CNR bridge over the previous Queensway alignment, that was abandoned when they moved the Queensway in the late 1950s.
Click to expand...

You know, it's not too often someone makes me go.....'huh'......about Toronto....... (so, Thanks)

But I had to use Streetview to find this.

I'm sure I've passed it before......but with my eyes looking forward on the road, probably never given it a moments thought. It's also not terribly visible when the vegetation is in leaf.

1624735809668.png


1624735847608.png
 
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