Ottawa Transit Developments

[CapitalSeven]

This discussion is 12 years old. Although it's true that high floor or a light metro solution should have been adopted, I'm not convinced the vehicles are being asked to do something they aren't designed to do. I've ridden several other systems with low floor cars that have comparable curves, speeds and spacing without the wheels falling off. The Alstom vehicle was based on a tram-train platform and rated for 100 or 105 mph and 25 meter curves. It's being driven at 80 and the whole Ottawa tight curve lark is an urban myth. It's all fixable, but the way the system was constructed (administratively and physically) doesn't work, and the companies are more interested in pointing fingers than fixing it.

 

[Bojaxs]

This discussion is 12 years old. Although it's true that high floor or a light metro solution should have been adopted, I'm not convinced the vehicles are being asked to do something they aren't designed to do. I've ridden several other systems with low floor cars that have comparable curves, speeds and spacing without the wheels falling off. The Alstom vehicle was based on a tram-train platform and rated for 100 or 105 mph and 25 meter curves. It's being driven at 80 and the whole Ottawa tight curve lark is an urban myth. It's all fixable, but the way the system was constructed (administratively and physically) doesn't work, and the companies are more interested in pointing fingers than fixing it.

Where have you ridden similar systems? A lot of people are claiming it doesn't make sense to operate low-floor LRVs on a completely grade separated setup. Ottawa is one of the very few cities that has this setup.

 

[seanlucat]

This discussion is 12 years old. Although it's true that high floor or a light metro solution should have been adopted, I'm not convinced the vehicles are being asked to do something they aren't designed to do. I've ridden several other systems with low floor cars that have comparable curves, speeds and spacing without the wheels falling off. The Alstom vehicle was based on a tram-train platform and rated for 100 or 105 mph and 25 meter curves. It's being driven at 80 and the whole Ottawa tight curve lark is an urban myth. It's all fixable, but the way the system was constructed (administratively and physically) doesn't work, and the companies are more interested in pointing fingers than fixing it.

the issue is truly the design of the trains yeah, the Citadis Dualis, of which the spirits are based upon, have had similar axle and bearing issues. not to mention the Dualis operate far more like commuter or regional rail rather than a metro like in Ottawa and then there's whole issue of the lack of doors and standing room inside with low floor LRV's.

 

[reaperexpress]

would go even further and say that we could've skipped over LRT and built a full metro akin to the skytrain or REM. but what's built is built unfortunately.

They did build a full metro. It's fully grade-separated and it even has Automatic Train Operation. It's just a metro that they are operating using trams that are poorly suited for metro operations.

 

[Bojaxs]

It seems even Alstom was warning the city of Ottawa back in 2011-12 that these trains were not ideal for what the city was asking of them.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/alstom-was-pushing-the-limit-of-what-a-light-rail-car-can-do-inquiry-hears-1.6491731?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar

Is it possible that the recently announced service cuts to the Confederation line could be due to Oc transpo wanting to reduce wear and tear on the trains? Apparently these trains have high maintenance costs.

 

[nfitz]

Where have you ridden similar systems?

In Seattle, it sometimes feels like they have the same systemic issue there. Everything they've built recently is 100% grade-separated, and they could have used high-floor trains. But there's legacy track between downtown and the airport, which has road crossings and platforms where low-floor makes more sense. On the other hand, the trains actually work - but annoyingly have steps in them everywhere to get over the wheels.

There's a lot more planned for Seattle - I'm not sure if they are going to start building non-grade-separated track or not.

Here's a photo I took a couple of weeks ago of the the trial running on the new Line 1 extension from Northgate to Lynnwood (which opened today!). No low-floor trains needed on this piece.

 

[ARG1]

Everything they've built recently is 100% grade-separated, and they could have used high-floor trains.

The new 2 Line to Redmond has a small at grade section in the median in East Bellevue:

 

[nfitz]

The new 2 Line to Redmond has a small at grade section in the median in East Bellevue:

Ah, interesting - I haven't been out that way. I don't know what they are doing south of Angel Lake as well, to be honest. Or in Tacoma - if that counts.