Krypto98
Active Member
That ROW was abandoned in the 1910s, there was a horseshoe curve with very steep grades that ended up with some derailment which shortly afterwards it was abandoned
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Orangeville-Brampton Railway (OBRY)
- Thread starter SaugeenJunction
- Start date
lenaitch
Senior Member
The letter writer is probably talking about the Toronto, Grey and Bruce RR (ultimately CPR) which branched off at Bolton and headed for Mount Forest.
You can still see the odd 'scar' in a fence or tree line if you know where to look.
It is curious that someone thinks that a ROW that hasn't existed for over a century is just lying there to be re-purposed.
You can still see the odd 'scar' in a fence or tree line if you know where to look.
It is curious that someone thinks that a ROW that hasn't existed for over a century is just lying there to be re-purposed.
crs1026
Superstar
It would clearly have to be undertaken as a new, greenfield project.
However, without feeling constrained by some historical right of way, it's not a completely wrongheaded way to get to Orangeville. The grades and curves might be better than the Orangeville Sub, and it's still undeveloped enough that the land, while not cheap, would at least be obtainable as (mostly) clear land. (Admittedly the EA might prove really difficult, and landowner opposition would be huge). And, if ML does build to Bolton, it's a cleaner way to get out of Toronto than via Streetsville and/or Brampton. Might not need a horseshoe as the more direct gradient could be handled with today's locomotives. Shorter - 15 miles as the crow flies Bolton to the 109 versus 18 for the OBRY.
To be clear, I don't see anyone seriously suggesting it, nor finding funding for it, but if we ever start planning new rail corridors, it's not impossible. And since much of that green space may see development or highways anyways, it's not wrong to suggest building a rail line in the mix.
- Paul
ShonTron
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The TG&B Station for Caledon Village still stands in its original location, though its nearly unrecognizable as its now a house, expanded upon and reclad, though the diagonal positioning is a giveaway. The station would have been an unremarkable wood frame structure when built.
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
It's been gone for a long time. You'd be expropriating land and completely rebuilding the corridor. Much easier and cheaper to use the OBRY routing and connect in with a future upgraded Milton Line.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Except Brampton is putting a park in the land south of the diamond, so unless the line is being trenched/tunnelled under the Diamond to south of there, it can’t get to CP Milton and if it can, it would also be a significant sum to do. A curve around to the GO Brampton platform might be possible but may be precluded by track alignment changes after GO Brampton expands - depends on how that’s done
crs1026
Superstar
The route through Brampton is disfunctional because a) potential connectivity to the Kitchener or Milton corridors is poor and b) the segment through Forks of Credit is not conducive to a speedy passenger rail service. So it should not be seen as the "better way", it's merely the only way that is (barely) intact. I would have no problem with any new routing
I don't expect that any new or existing routing is going to have sufficient business case value to justify funding. Orangeville is destined to be "off the grid" for a long time.
- Paul
I don't expect that any new or existing routing is going to have sufficient business case value to justify funding. Orangeville is destined to be "off the grid" for a long time.
- Paul
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
1h 18 mins from Union to Orangeville isn't slow, especially considering traffic. Also the bulk of the ridership from the corridor isn't Orangeville, it is Brampton.
The connection to Brampton GO is very workable. The Milton Line connection is fine too (once Milton is RER'd) as you'd just interline with it.
crs1026
Superstar
I'm not sure that a connecting track fits in the plans to triple (and eventually quad) track Brampton station. Using the diamond from Streetsville is doubly problemmatic because every Orangeville train would conflict with the soon- busy Kitchener line. A grade separation would be very costly.
A separate connecting train with change at Brampton is conceivable, but I wonder if that's worth the effort.
- Paul
SaugeenJunction
Senior Member
I agree with you that a connecting track at Brampton (Owen Sound Sub to CN) doesn't really make sense. I would be curious what a fly-under and trenched section through downtown Brampton would cost. On the plus side, you'd be cut-and-covering, and could go under the CN corridor with a Verona system - making a weekend shutdown all that is needed. Not having to contend with OBRY rail traffic would mean unconstrained access to work, and not having to build bypass tracks around work areas. Much easier to work on a non-live corridor than a live one.
crs1026
Superstar
Possibly doable in theory depending on the final design of LRT, Brampton GO, and on what the roadwork plan for that area becomes (might have to be tunnelling under roads as well as the CN line). However that ties the idea to whatever happens on the Milton line. Possibly one or two of the unused slots already in hand could be reinstated as far as Streetsville and diverted north to Orangeville, but that steals from any recovery ir growth on Milton and only provides Orangeville with one or two peak trains… an expensive grade separation for that small a ridership. Possibly when Milton is finally upgraded to 2WAD the idea becomes possible - but Brampton will have redeveloped the OBRY ROW by then.
- Paul
Wm Perkins Bull
Active Member
What would make reinstating OBRY better than creating a BRT line from downtown Brampton to Orangeville, with continuous bus lanes from Brampton GO to Orangeville? 15 Minute headway GO bus service plus paving the shoulders next time the road needs to be resurfaced would be vastly cheaper.
Dan416
Senior Member
Regardless of the fact that the bus is cheaper and a good option for now, it doesn’t mean we should be actively destroying a ROW that could be used in the future. It’s so short-sighted it’s crazy.
dowlingm
Senior Member
Okay so you push a box under CN - to what clearance and will there be room to electrify it? And then when you have figured that out, how far back do you have to stay at that sub grade level before you can surface, and at what gradient? Are you going to maintain all local streets or close some? When you do surface, what about the level crossings now removed - will any have to be reinstated with higher quality barriers or other measures because they are no longer grandfathered?
The point I am making here is that it is now vastly more expensive in time and disruption to put any service through that area, and no level of government was willing to spend that lesser sum or even pay to keep the line extant in principle.
Why and when will anyone spend the greater sum for a train which will almost certainly be a 2 seat ride to anywhere other than Brampton or Streetsville, when for possibly the same or less you could find a route across from CP MacTier as an add on to a direct Bolton GO train project?
The point I am making here is that it is now vastly more expensive in time and disruption to put any service through that area, and no level of government was willing to spend that lesser sum or even pay to keep the line extant in principle.
Why and when will anyone spend the greater sum for a train which will almost certainly be a 2 seat ride to anywhere other than Brampton or Streetsville, when for possibly the same or less you could find a route across from CP MacTier as an add on to a direct Bolton GO train project?
