Divas S.
Active Member
The section in Brampton and Mississauga is perfect for commuting..?
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Orangeville-Brampton Railway (OBRY)
- Thread starter SaugeenJunction
- Start date
UrbanJon
New Member
In theory, but it doesn't connect any useful destinations, and is therefore not of much use. Additionally, the Hurontario LRT fills this role.
Also, the town of Orangeville is entitled to a return on their lost money from this unsuccessful venture. The way they will accomplish this is by selling lands in Mississauga and Brampton with high value. This also makes the OBRY corridor valuable by providing space for high-density development.
nfitz
Superstar
With a curve added to the Kitchener line (and it looks like there's space for one already), it could connect to Line 6, Line 5, Line 2, Line 1, the Ontario Line, and the UPE.
Nomad_87
Active Member
It also connects to the Galt Sub (Milton Line) around Streetsville. If the missing link is built and CP Rail agrees to use it and allow more rail service through central Mississauga they can maybe use it for something then maybe they can run trains through to north Brampton and maybe southern Caledon (since it's supposed to grow greatly along the Brampton border) via the Galt sub.
Northern Light
Superstar
Municipalities are not 'entitled' to a profit or cost-recovery.
For that matter, neither are businesses (though its certainly good practice).
You appear to have come on this forum for the sole purpose of disparaging several branch railway lines.............
Funny, we had a poster just like that awhile ago...........
dowlingm
Senior Member
Where along the OBRY do you see this happening? It seems more likely to me that low rise residential owners will acquire it for bigger backyards, much as the late lamented CNoR route northwest of Kennedy Station. Given it seems to pass by a couple of correctional institutions there may be resistance on their part to a public trail in that section.
North of Elliott Street in Brampton, part of it might end up just becoming a road cut under the CN to redirect some traffic from the Mill Street-CN-Railroad St crossing.
smallspy
Senior Member
It seems as if you are making the assumption that the only purpose of a rail line is for carrying passengers.
I would make the suggestion that they are capable of carrying so much more than just that.
Provided that the collective town of Orangeville and city of Brampton can get their heads out of its own asses, the current usage was working well.
Dan
lenaitch
Senior Member
I was going on the assumption that the case for a viable freight service - for the entire route - no longer exists
DirectionNorth
Active Member
It doesn't look like there's any room for this, if it is what you're thinking of.
Looking through Urban Jon's history, it seems so ...
Others have explained that it almost certainly won't be high-density. We all know that Brampton opposes an on-street LRT, whatever their reasoning may be. I usually see using rail corridors for LRT/BRT routes as a waste, but here, the route parallels Hurontario, and is quite straight. I'll repost this:
Disregarding the line to Streetsville GO, which I drew in a moment of fantasy, this is an easy way to go around their opposition to LRT. I would think that Orangeville's investment would be put to much better use like this, than as development. Toronto has no shortage of potential development land. Let's not destroy yet another railway corridor.
wopchop
Building Toronto
Seems incredibly short-sighted to close the line.
One day, Orangeville & Dufferin county might find that a direct connection to Pearson and/or Toronto via rail is valuable. Between Orangeville and Shelburne, Dufferin is expected to grow pretty significantly over the next 20 years.
Right now, in this post-pandemic traffic, the drive from Orangeville is 1 - 1.5 hours to Union. Even Pearson is showing ~45min - 1hr.
I wonder what potential schedules would look like on this line, if it could transition onto Kitchener tracks.
wopchop
Building Toronto
Northern Light
Superstar
I wasn't thinking of having it switch over to the CN Tracks.
Just having it stop at Queen West, which is only 450m from Main/Hurontario.
nfitz
Superstar
That's the southeast corner. I was thinking of the northeast corner. With a couple of new stops in northern Brampton. I doubt there's demand north of that, for now.
crs1026
Superstar
The connecting track curving from the Halton sub to the Orangeville line once existed, and the curvature of the row can still be seen. I’m not so sure it could be maintained once the fourth Halton Sub track is added (which would mean shifting the heritage depot…. I’m told that is still a long-range plan). So a direct Toronto-Bramalea- Orangeville route is not beyond imagination. I question whether it would be useful, considering how the Forks constrain the route.
There’s no law that says a town has to maintain rail infrastructure as part of its industrial development strategy… but it’s informative that other Southern Ontario communities are doing just that. The OBRY was clearly marginal, but the Town’s official antipathy created a self-fulfilling prophecy… one can’t say the line was not earning its keep when the rail users were deliberately driven away. A different municipal strategy might have retained revenue and added new businesses rather than letting the line decline.
When one reads just how aggressive developers are in the Peel-Caledon area - mumble 413 mumble - one can’t help but having dark thoughts about what led to Orangeville Council’s decision. I think the OBRY is a loss that could have been avoided, but I don’t think it had much potential as a GO line.
- Paul
There’s no law that says a town has to maintain rail infrastructure as part of its industrial development strategy… but it’s informative that other Southern Ontario communities are doing just that. The OBRY was clearly marginal, but the Town’s official antipathy created a self-fulfilling prophecy… one can’t say the line was not earning its keep when the rail users were deliberately driven away. A different municipal strategy might have retained revenue and added new businesses rather than letting the line decline.
When one reads just how aggressive developers are in the Peel-Caledon area - mumble 413 mumble - one can’t help but having dark thoughts about what led to Orangeville Council’s decision. I think the OBRY is a loss that could have been avoided, but I don’t think it had much potential as a GO line.
- Paul
UrbanJon
New Member
They own the property. It is the responsibility of the Town of Orangeville to provide for their citizens. Therefore, it would be improper for the town to make any deal on the right of way where they don't recover their full costs. This is why we shouldn't stand in the way of the sale and redevelopment of the right of way. It belongs to the town and they have the final say. It will provide a windfall for them at a time when it is much needed.
The Brampton station site would be excellent for redevelopment as the mayor has already alluded to.
I don't know which towns you are referring to. Barrie's railway is also on the ropes and will likely close soon. The Guelph Junction Railway is over 100 years old and exists in an established, strong manufacturing city so it is very different.
And the reason the OBRY is closing is that the shippers no longer see it as viable. It shows how flawed the concept was in the first place. Orangeville already exists within less than an hour's drive from many very large plastics and chemicals terminals operared by CN, CP and other companies where Orangeville industries can bring in their raw materials. Transloading is the way rail shipping is done these days and it is certainly more efficient as it requires fewer switching moves and less infrastructure to maintain.
And this is why there isn't much worth in preserving the RoW. Freight is going away. We know that. So what else can it be used for in the future? The OBRY corridor just isn't all that useful for transporting goods and transit when factoring in other redundant infrastructure.