micheal_can
Senior Member
My concerns around the stations is they feel like the attitude was "this should be enough to placate them". While many will say they are minor stations, in the area, they are a major station and should be treated as such.
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Ontario Northland/Northern Ontario Transportation
- Thread starter CDL.TO
- Start date
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Just get the ONL trains running from Toronto to Timmins et al asap. The stations, fancy or otherwise can come later.
micheal_can
Senior Member
Would the same be accepted if it was a new GO line? Or a new subway line?
Willybru21
Active Member
Yeah, new GO and subway stations being built right now are noticeably more simple than ones that Metrolinx was building 10 years ago.
I think the only exception to this is Exhibition GO/TTC station.
Even the recent BRT guidelines Metrolinx released recommends building stations as simple and basic as possible, total opposite of the current BRT stations in the GTHA (notably Vaughan)
micheal_can
Senior Member
So, no heat/AC?
What about toilets?
Admiral Beez
Superstar
Whataboutism will get you nowhere.
micheal_can
Senior Member
I get that. We should just be thankful the government thought of us...
lenaitch
Senior Member
Geez, you're like a dog on a bone.
In all of the community engagement, pre and post announcement, has the issue of station facilities been raised as an issue? Are the surrounding communities complaining about the station they will get?
One sure way to have killed this project (that many feel is on questionable financial footing to start with) would have been to drive the capital costs through the roof with multi-million dollar facilities. At least if the service fails, as some predict it will, the trainset can be sold.
The flag stops on the Polar Bear Express aren't even kiosks. Better get on that.
micheal_can
Senior Member
As I understand it, the Northlander will not have flag stops. The PBX starts and ends at stations with washrooms and heating and air conditioning. However, if the places these buildings are going to are flag stops, then they are good enough.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I mean these stations will be lucky to average 15 people a day at them. They are absolutely not major stations for a service which won't even be operating 7 days a week for much of the year. They do not need significant capital investment. There are bus stops in Toronto which get nothing more than a sign post and a dirt patch that have higher traffic levels.
crs1026
Superstar
Exactly.
There is a lot of misplaced nostalgia for the days when small town train stations had a sense of place, because they were also a place where railway activites were operating 24.7......a train order office, a yard office, an express/lcl office, MOW sheds and personnel, possibly a small yard where engines and cabooses tied up. Those activities have all disappeared or gone elsewhere. So the small town platform really is nothing more than a bus stop in a fairly obscure location.
It makes good sense to provide good wayfinding and some level of perceived substance, and some minimal shelter.... but let's not drift into fantasy. The Northlander stops are well short of transportation "hubs" as one might find in a somewhat bigger community.
- Paul
micheal_can
Senior Member
If we look at what those old stations used to have, they did have heat and washrooms. They closed before AC would be retrofitted. So, All I really think should exist is the same as what those provided. Many of these places do have transit, including Bracebridge, Huntsville and New Liskard (Temiskaming Shores). One would hope there would be a bus bay and schedules service to and from the stations.
There is a good chance that this will be the only building constructed for this line. I just want to ensure it is done right.
The New Liskeard station was only open certain hours of the day, so when we would take the night train we waited outside or sat in our cars when it was -40 out. Nothing is much more than a 10-15 minute drive, so people weren't hanging out for hours. And as mentioned, there weren't throngs of people getting on the train. A handful at any one time. Really, it's fine. You're the only one making an issue of this.
lenaitch
Senior Member
Actually, according to The Sun, it will. I don't think the options in the Business Case to only operate on alternate days or only to operate part of the run in the off season had much traction.
Northlander will operate one southbound and one northbound service a day
There will be 16 two-minute stops in both directions.
torontosun.com
If we look at the previous Northlander service, some of the older stations (Washago, Bracebridge) were not used in latter years and, as Lucy mentions, even the ones that did have operating facilities weren't open at train time; they were mainly workplaces for their employees.
Without doing a really deep dive (not counting GTA stops) and using station times in the business case;
Washago - no transit
Gravenhurst - no transit
Bracebridge - transit; operates during s/b stop, not n/b
Huntsville - same as Bracebridge
South River - no transit
North Bay - transit; operates outside of train times
Temagami - no transit
Timiskaming Shores - transit; operates outside of train times
Englehart - no transit
Kirkland Lake - no transit
Matheson - no transit
Timmins - transit; appears to accommodate train times.
Whether the municipalities adjust their service, both timing and routing, I suppose would be up to them. Only two (North and Timmins) operate coach buses, so not much need for "bus bays".
Outside of the corridor, many of the VIA facilities are equally basic.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
I'm just going off the provincial press release for the announcement of the shelters which identified service as being "4-7 days a week depending on the season".
I suspect summer service will be 7-days a week, with reduced service levels in the winter.
I suspect summer service will be 7-days a week, with reduced service levels in the winter.